Would U Pray With A Muslim...

[Paladin]

Heh, if you think PhatMass is full of Kumbayaa Catholics, you're looking in the wrong place, brother. :

As for the Church, she has her Kumbayaa Catholics, but the Pope is not among them.

[musturde]

[quote name='Budge' post='1057547' date='Sep 5 2006, 11:37 PM']
How many of you would KISS THIS?

[img]http://www.coranix.com/101/kaaba_pierre_noire.jpg[/img]

Islamics do as an act of worship.
[/quote]

its an act of veneration...

[Budge]

Oh so the Muslims only venerate instead of worship...the cybele meterorite...

Who would have thunk it???

ISLAMIC HYPERDULIA!!!



Sheesh were do you folks come up with this stuff...

Musturde, go google "Phatmass"

Right on the descripter Phatmass adverstises itself as supporting the "unity of all religions"

Considering the threads where Ive had Catholics stating they would pray to Allah [of Islam] with Muslims, and defending every other aspect of the interfaith world, I think this place is as KUMBUYAH as most other Novus Ordo Catholic message boards.

[musturde]

Budge, what constitutes a different God for you? Muhammad was only a prophet, his teachings of the God of Abraham wouldn't make him a different God, would they? It's just be a misinterpretation of how our God is and how he works.

[quote name='Budge' post='1058060' date='Sep 6 2006, 06:17 PM']
Oh so the Muslims only venerate instead of worship...the cybele meterorite...

Who would have thunk it???

ISLAMIC HYPERDULIA!!!



Sheesh were do you folks come up with this stuff...

Musturde, go google "Phatmass"

Right on the descripter Phatmass adverstises itself as supporting the "unity of all religions"

Considering the threads where Ive had Catholics stating they would pray to Allah [of Islam] with Muslims, and defending every other aspect of the interfaith world, I think this place is as KUMBUYAH as most other Novus Ordo Catholic message boards.
[/quote]

I still don't see why it concerns you though. They don't worship a rock. They don't worship Muhammad. They worship the Father. There are many Muslims who honor Jesus more than most Christians.

Budge, would you pray with a Catholic? If so then why? According to you, we also worship saints and idols.

Edited September 6, 2006 by musturde

[Farsight one]

Budge, you are quick to alter one or two words in a topic to alter the entirety of what one of us says, but it's getting ridiculus in this topic.


post #17
[quote]So about 2/3rds here would pray to Allah [of Islam], breaking this commandment with no holding back...[/quote]

post#24
[quote]There is no explanation nor excuse, nor context, to worship the god of a false religion.[/quote]

post#24
[quote]Considering 2/3rds of the folks here would pray to Allah [of Islam][/quote]

post#41
[quote]So what youre trying to tell me as long as a false rite isnt conducted, its ok to pray to a false God?[/quote]

post#48
[quote]Considering the threads where Ive had Catholics stating they would pray to Allah [of Islam] with Muslims, and defending every other aspect of the interfaith world, I think this place is as KUMBUYAH as most other Novus Ordo Catholic message boards.[/quote]

All of these posts made by you, Budge, where you claim that we 2/3 of us have admitted that we would pray to false gods. However, if you would OPEN YOUR EYES and take more than a glance at our posts, you would see that many Catholics of this board have said repeated that while they would pray [i]with[/i] a muslim, they would pray to God and they would pray christian prayers (which if you ever took a muslim prayer and translated it to english, you mind find yourself unable to tell the difference without the word "Allah" giving it away). To pray [i]with[/i] someone mean no more than praying at the same time that they are praying (and in most cases, doing so in their immediate vicinity). NOT ONE person has said that they would pray to a false god.

Another word twisting:

quote made in post#41:
[quote] The God I perceive hears all prayers and judges them correctly[quote]
your response:
[quote]If you believe in the God that accepts the prayers of all religions, you are not praying to the One True God of the Bible.[/quote]You changed "hears" to "accepts" and completely altered the meaning of what was said.

post#41
[quote]
These are horrible horrible delusions your Popes are leading you into. So what if the participants are praying in different places, no true Christian who loves the God of the Bible would sponser prayers to demons and false spirits.[/quote]sponser? where did we say that? More false assumptions.

[quote]Another huge life of Rome, that Jesus Christ [being the sole redeemer of all people] saves via FALSE religions. That is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible, that is the new age, Lucis Trust-Theosophical/Freemason, cosmic christ, ANTICHRIST.[/quote]
Again, altered words. People cannot be saved [i]via[/i] false religions. But people who are in false religions can be saved.

[quote]That isnt me marking it, that is God.[/quote]
Oh, really? did God stop by your house on his way to the grocery store and tell you that? Or maybe he called over the phone. Left a text message?

[quote]1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

That means Allah [of Islam] is not of God.[/quote]
Your bible quote once again has nothing to do with what you want it to. Christ warns against the antichrist, but does not mention in that passage that Allah is the antichrist

[quote]What do you think all the warnings about the HARLOT in the Bible are about?[/quote]
Umm...You, maybe? You who join the church(marriage), and then alter it to better fit your own personal preferences(cheating, and therefore making yourself a harlot), instead of accepting it for the way it is.

Not really, but from a neutral perspective, it's just a logically sound as your belief that the Catholic church is the harlot.

Oh...this quote carp ain't working...sorry.

Edited September 7, 2006 by Farsight one

[Akalyte]

no i wouldnt, past popes have warned saying if you pray with heretics, or muslims and anti-catholics, that you become one with them. No thanks.

[Budge]

Akalyte, glad to see you are against this...

Course now in some Novus Ordo circles youll be seen as a PROTESTANT for not getting on the interfaith bandwagon.

Budge, you are quick to alter one or two words in a topic to alter the entirety of what one of us says, but it's getting ridiculus in this topic.

[quote]
All of these posts made by you, Budge, where you claim that we 2/3 of us have admitted that we would pray to false gods. However, if you would OPEN YOUR EYES and take more than a glance at our posts, you would see that many Catholics of this board have said repeated that while they would pray with a muslim, they would pray to God and they would pray christian prayers (which if you ever took a muslim prayer and translated it to english, you mind find yourself unable to tell the difference without the word "Allah" giving it away)[/quote]

Praying WITH Muslims, in one accord, [which many here have stated that islamics pray to the same god] is praying to Allah of Islam.

This is just the usual quibbles and bits.

As for the reality of this, I dare you to go to your largest big city mosque, get up on stage and do a prayer where you pray directly to "Jesus Christ" Use the phrase My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and see what happens.

By the way...

havent mentioned this yet, but noticed it first time you posted...... Far"sight"...obvious occultic name and avatar.

[quote]There are many Muslims who honor Jesus more than most Christians.[/quote]

They dont honor him if they beleive the Koran which directly DENIES him.

Edited September 7, 2006 by Budge

[Farsight one]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058159' date='Sep 6 2006, 09:12 PM']

Praying WITH Muslims, in one accord, [which many here have stated that islamics pray to the same god] is praying to Allah of Islam.[/quote]If a christian praying with a muslim IS praying to Allah, then a Muslim praying with a christian IS praying to Jesus Christ. It works both ways, or neither way.

[quote]havent mentioned this yet, but noticed it first time you posted...... Far"sight"...obvious occultic name and avatar.
[/quote]
I'm suprised a was a member of these boards this long without getting a comment about my name and avatar. "obvious" accultic name and avatar, eh? Just as "obvious" to you that you are right and we are wrong?

Name: Farsight One

farsight is the name of a gun from the video game "perfect dark" for the nintento 64. My old friends called me that because I was quite proficient with it. So much so that they banned it when we played.

Farsight is also the name of a character from the Chronicles of Narnia. Specifically, "The Last Battle" if my memory serves me. (and yes, he was a good guy)

Avatar: nightcrawler

Nightcrawler is from the well known comic/tv show/movie series x-men. He is very very religious and strong in his christian faith. He was born blue, with three fingers on each hand and a prehensile tale. This does make him look like a demon, yes, but he is no demon. Every time he sins, he gets an ancient angelic symbol tatood onto his body as a reminder to himself of his transgressions. As well, he was a member of the benedictine order of monks in germany, the only place who saw his worth rather than judge by looks alone (as you do). Being a student of a Benedictine college, it seemed only appropriate to me.

[Budge]

[quote]If a christian praying with a muslim IS praying to Allah, then a Muslim praying with a christian IS praying to Jesus Christ. It works both ways, or neither way.[/quote]

You got to be kidding me.

Ok Ill go grab a Wiccan I know and start praying and then by osmosis theyll be praying to Jesus too?

{what kind of confusion is this?}

Whatever happened to the Great Commission and preach that people need Jesus Christ to be saved.
[quote]

Name: Farsight One

farsight is the name of a gun from the video game "perfect dark" for the nintento 64. My old friends called me that because I was quite proficient with it. So much so that they banned it when we played.[/quote]

Video games arent known for being Biblically based.

Perfect Dark? Is that a game a "Christian" should be thinking is so wonderful?

[quote]
Nightcrawler is from the well known comic/tv show/movie series x-men. He is very very religious and strong in his christian faith. He was born blue, with three fingers on each hand and a prehensile tale. This does make him look like a demon, yes, but he is no demon. Every time he sins, he gets an ancient angelic symbol tatood onto his body as a reminder to himself of his transgressions. As well, he was a member of the benedictine order of monks in germany, the only place who saw his worth rather than judge by looks alone (as you do). Being a student of a Benedictine college, it seemed only appropriate to me.
[/quote]


Just more things of the world leading you into more confusion.

[jesusisalive3]

Hey Everyone,

Here's a question, does God hear everything? If this sounds like a stupid quesetion, let me alter it for you. If a prayer is not directed to God, does He still hear it? This is [i][b]not[/b][/i] to say that praying to other gods(or more accurately things that some consider gods) is ok and alright, because they are not God (as is Y'WH [or Jehovah according to some translations]). However, God would not forsake a prayer simply because it is not addressed correctly.

[quote]One thing Ive noticed on here, is how many excuses and disclaimers you folks have for every one of Gods DIRECT commandments. God didnt say its ok to pray with pagans for a cause that is "good enough".[/quote]

Am I misunderstanding something, here? I was under the impression that God the commandment was, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God..." [i]Exodus 20:3-5 KJV[/i]
Now, If I go and pray to Y'WH about something while someone else who is with me prays to Vishnu, or Ba'al, or Allah etc. about the same thing, does this mean that I am praying to whomever they are praying to? Is this not what was meant by "praying with a muslim"?

[quote]Your Pope's are ushering in the one world religion.[/quote]

Seriously, Budge, I am not trying to gang up on you, but I must say something here. The Catholic Church, the Vatican, and JP2 are [b][i]not[/i][/b][/i] supporting a "one world religion." They have supported and will likely continue to support a "unity between faiths" there is a difference. Unity between faiths does not mean that we all will agree upon religious beliefs and doctrines, but rather that we will all work together to help better the world.

Alright, I've had my 2 cents and I'm out of time (must get back to the life off the net:)

-peace

[Budge]

[quote]he Catholic Church, the Vatican, and JP2 are not[/i] supporting a "one world religion." They have supported and will likely continue to support a "unity between faiths" there is a difference. Unity between faiths does not mean that we all will agree upon religious beliefs and doctrines, but rather that we will all work together to help better the world.[/quote]

When did Jesus or the apostles ever teach to unite with unbelievers and false religions to help "better" the world?

That is a focus too on the things of this world.

I have realized the Vatican is much more concerned with the gold , accolades and things of this world much more then building treasures in heaven.

When one joins with Buddhists, Hindus, Vooduns for world peace, they

1. water down the gospel.

2. Renounce the great commission for things of this world.

3. Deny the saving gospel to the unbelievers.



[quote]However, God would not forsake a prayer simply because it is not addressed correctly.[/quote]

Actually YES HE WOULD
[quote]
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. [size=5]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, AS THE HEATHEN DO: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.[/size] Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before you ask Him.”—Matthew 6:5-8[/quote]

[Winchester]

I hadn't realized you did the Vatican's accounting books.

I'm impressed. You're impressive. In fact, I'm clapping my hands. Sorry it makes this come out s l o w .


If you were 2K years old and had any devotion to Jesus es evidenced in the Bible, you'd have lot's of religious art as well.

[Farsight one]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058168' date='Sep 6 2006, 09:30 PM']
You got to be kidding me.

Ok Ill go grab a Wiccan I know and start praying and then by osmosis theyll be praying to Jesus too?

{what kind of confusion is this?}[/quote]That's exactly what I thought. But, it's YOUR logic, not mine. I just rephrased(without changing the meaning) it and added a logical following to show you how ridiculous your statement was.
[quote]
Video games arent known for being Biblically based.[/quote]and? Are you implying that you think everything in a person's life should be biblically based?
[quote]
Perfect Dark? Is that a game a "Christian" should be thinking is so wonderful?[/quote]
Depends on the kind of christian you are. Certainly don't play the game before you're 17 as it has an "M" rating, but it's good to plug in every once in a while to relieve some stress by shooting up some random aliens.

I know, as a psychologist, that excessive playing of violent video games will increase anyone's agression, anger, and tendency for violent acts, but just like alcohol, taking it in moderation is not a problem.
[quote]Just more things of the world leading you into more confusion.
[/quote]If you spend all your time looking for the wolf in sheep's clothing, you'll miss the sheep in wolf's clothing. God is all powerful, yet can appear to you in a whisper. Things burning and not dying is generally associated(even in ancient times) with satanic things, yet God appeared as a burning bush.

Edited September 7, 2006 by Farsight one

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058168' date='Sep 6 2006, 09:30 PM']Video games arent known for being Biblically based.
[/quote]

Neither are cars. Or trains or bikes, or airplanes, or hamburgers, or neighborhoods, or or
...

Do we go to hell because we have different transportation and living needs? Or because some of us like dancing tacos, so very tasty and good for you,?

Or because we now have different forms of harmless entertainment? Now if you were to argue the type of game then you might be able to go somewhere with that, although it's an entirely different thread topic.

Seriously dude(or dudette, not sure I agree with a good number of issues you bring up in this thread (and others) such as the praying with other faiths, Assisi gatherings etc., establishment of a one-world religion and all that. I think you are spot on with a lot of that stuff, but when you bring up stuff like this it makes your whole argument look completely stupid. Stick to what you brought up originally. It was good reading and even though I know you are drawing completely errant conclusions, you are at least providing good data. Keep it coming, but leave the crappy arguments behind okie?

Edited September 7, 2006 by goldenchild17

[Mercy me]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1057776' date='Sep 6 2006, 12:46 PM']
Yep. I'll put some stuff up when I get back from class.

Edit: I agree with Budge on this so far. I would be interested in hearing the rational for why we worship the same God as the Muslims, and the Jews for that matter. Besides the fact that the new catechism says so. Thanks . I won't argue against it as that seems to be bad policy, I just want to know why the Vatican is teaching this now.
[/quote]

Muslims trace their roots back to Abraham through Ishmael. The specific verse they cite that references them is Genesis 21:18. Therefore they are the 3rd religion that traces it's roots back to Abraham. It is why it you hear the phrase "God of Abraham" so often.