Would U Pray With A Muslim...

[Anomaly]

I wonder what the Catholic Church really teaches about this specifically.
Can any of you reference the Catechism or Canon law in regards to praying with Muslims.
I would think there would be circumstances it would be good and circumstances it would be bad according to Catholic Church theology.
People have only expressed their opinion. Citing singular references from Pope's or Bishop's letters aren't usually conclusive as they usually are addressing a particular circumstance.

[Budge]

[size=3]Isa 12:2 Behold, God [is] my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH [is] my strength and [my] song; he also is become my salvation.[/size]

From KJV...

{Im not a Jehovah Witness--just specificing that Allah of Islam is NOT the same god as the ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible}

Who cares about what the Catholic Church teaches what about God?

So about 2/3rds here would pray to Allah [of Islam], breaking this commandment with no holding back...


Why dont you folks take this commandment seriously?
[font="Lucida Sans Unicode"]
Exd 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.[/font]

Edited September 6, 2006 by Budge

[KnightofChrist]

God's name is Jehovah, Holy Mother Church teaches this as well.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Budge' post='1057694' date='Sep 6 2006, 09:12 AM']

Who cares about what the Catholic Church teaches what about God?

[/quote]

Um..about 1.1 billion peeps, at last count.

Why you have to be so nasty Budge? I for one care what you and your denomination teaches. What is your denomination, BTW?

Be nice, be happy, be a brother in Christ.

[KnightofChrist]

Praying for a muslim is not breaking the comandment of God, thats what I would do, but I cant speak for others.

But where has any here 2/3 said they pray "to" the god of Islam? Praying "to" and praying "with" are two different things. Praying beside a muslim, is not breaking the Commandment of God.

I'm sure that same "2/3" would agree Islam is a heresy.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Budge' post='1057694' date='Sep 6 2006, 09:12 AM']

{Im not a Jehovah Witness--just specificing that Allah of Islam is NOT the same god as the ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible}

[/quote]


Actually, he is the same God. Muslims, Jews, and Christians all worship the god of Abraham, our common father in faith.

Now that said...our understanding of who God is, what he is, and how to serve him differs, sometimes in radical ways.

Call him God, call him Jehovah, call him Yahweh or YHWH...God is still God, no matter what we call him or what limits/images/boundaries we try to impose upon him.

Your statement would be more accurate if you changed it thusly: "Muslims' view of Allah of Islam is NOT the same as Christians' view of god as the ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible"

Yours in Christ,

[Budge]

[quote]
Actually, he is the same God. Muslims, Jews, and Christians all worship the god of Abraham, our common father in faith.[/quote]

Muslims do not worship the same god.

You do know that since the Koran DIRECTLY denies Jesus Christ in Surah 4...

that by all scriptural tests it is antichrist.

I guess some of you can start going to mosques now...

[img]http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/055_popekissesKoran.jpg[/img]


[quote]God's name is Jehovah, Holy Mother Church teaches this as well.
[/quote]

Not anymore considering Nostra Aetate...
[quote]

Um..about 1.1 billion peeps, at last count.[/quote]

Read what the Bible says about the broad way.

[Groo the Wanderer]

AHA! You fell into my trap! *sinister music here*

No seriously, I knew you would quote me out of context...you left out the rest of the explanation and only quoted the opening phrase.

But then, fundys/nondoms (not a slam, just a grouping) tend to do that a lot...especially with Sacred Scripture.


But...I still lub you! :

[Budge]

There is no explanation nor excuse, nor context, to worship the god of a false religion.

That is basic Christianity 101, devotion to God alone.

[Era Might]

Yes, as long as the prayer was such that it wasn't specifically Muslim. We worship the same God, of course, but we do not share the same faith in Muhammed. A common prayer couldn't betray that difference.

[quote]We Christians joyfully recognize the religious values we have in common with Islam. Today I would like to repeat what I said to young Muslims some years ago in Casablanca: "We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection" (Insegnamenti, VIII/2, [1985], p. 497). The patrimony of revealed texts in the Bible speaks unanimously of the oneness of God. Jesus himself reaffirms it, making Israel's profession his own: "The Lord our God, the Lord is one" (Mk 12:29; cf. Dt 6:4-5). This oneness is also affirmed in the words of praise that spring from the heart of the Apostle Paul: "To the king of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen'"(1 Tm 1:17).

--Pope John Paul II

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MUSLM.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MUSLM.HTM[/url][/quote]

[Budge]

[quote]We worship the same God, of course, but we do not share the same faith in Muhammed. [u]A common prayer couldn't betray that difference.[/u]
[/quote]

Yes it would.

[Eutychus]

Which COMMON PRAYER GROUP DID PAUL OR PETER OR JAMES "engage in joint prayers WITH?"

Ba'al?

Asherath?

Diana?

Zeus?

Ju-Peter?

Mithra?

Just wondering...just wondering....

[i]{ we must be using different bibles, MINE tells me that the apostles preached JESUS to the pagans, and told them they MUST become Christians if they were to escape the wrath of God. Yours seems to say "pagans are really Roman Catholics, they just have the NAME of God confused." }[/i]

[Budge]

Considering 2/3rds of the folks here would pray to Allah [of Islam]

Maybe they could join up with this gal...

[quote]Former Catholic student leads Islamic Society

September 02, 2006 - 9:08 am
By: Joe Pavia

The 42nd annual convention of the Islamic Society of North America gets underway this weekend in Rosemont Illinois.

Ingrid Mattson who heads up the Society of North America has criticized U.S. President George W. Bush for comments he made about "Islamic Facism". Mattson, whose a native of Kitchener, says labelling terrorism as 'Islamic' only adds to the misunderstanding of Islam. She says terrorists misuse Islamic concepts which she rejects.
Mattson whose originally from Kitchener and a graduate from St. Mary's High School is the first woman to be elected President of the organization. A move some say signals a change in attitude toward women in the Muslim faith. While other cynics call it a conspiracy on the part of the organization to put up a 'front woman' as a symbolic gesture.
Mattson converted to Islam from Catholicism and studied Islamic law at Hartford Seminary in Connecticut and philosophy at the University of Waterloo in the 1980's.
She tells 570 News she fell from the Catholic faith while in high school and became interested in Islam during a job out west in the late 80's.

The group was formed in 1963 The Islamic Society of North America is an umbrella group that represents Muslim associations for youth, college students, engineers and others, and also provides support to Muslim chaplains and North American mosques. Its annual meeting regularly draws more than 30,000 people.

The president serves a two-year term, leading the society's committees and executive boards that set policy through consultation with its members.[/quote]

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1057679' date='Sep 6 2006, 08:30 AM']
I wonder what the Catholic Church really teaches about this specifically.
Can any of you reference the Catechism or Canon law in regards to praying with Muslims.
I would think there would be circumstances it would be good and circumstances it would be bad according to Catholic Church theology.
People have only expressed their opinion. Citing singular references from Pope's or Bishop's letters aren't usually conclusive as they usually are addressing a particular circumstance.
[/quote]


Yep. I'll put some stuff up when I get back from class.

Edit: I agree with Budge on this so far. I would be interested in hearing the rational for why we worship the same God as the Muslims, and the Jews for that matter. Besides the fact that the new catechism says so. Thanks . I won't argue against it as that seems to be bad policy, I just want to know why the Vatican is teaching this now.

Edited September 6, 2006 by goldenchild17

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Budge' post='1057726' date='Sep 6 2006, 10:14 AM']
There is no explanation nor excuse, nor context, to worship the god of a false religion.

That is basic Christianity 101, devotion to God alone.
[/quote]


I'm not sure why you don;t get it...is it because you do not understand, or that you refuse to?

1. we are ALL children of the same God, whether we all believe in Him or not, and whether we all believe in Him the same way or not. To deny this is to deny God as the Creator.
2. God loves ALL of his children, whether we all believe in Him or not, and whether we all believe in Him the same way or not. Again, to deny this is to deny God as the Creator.
3. all human fathers want thier children to get along, even if they have different beliefs, lack of beliefs, or whatever their differences are. THE Father desires the same for his children, to an even greater degree.

now pay attention here, unless you are merely refusing to understand, in which case, go play a video game or something and don't waster yer time reading further...

4. praying WITH someone is NOT the same as PRAYING TO THE SAME deity/god/power/whatever
5. praying WITH someone does NOT imply or prove that they share the same belief system/religion, it can simply be the agreement on a thing

case in point...
A Catholic, a Protestant, a Jew, a Muslim, a Hindu, a Buddhist, and an Indian (feathers, not dots) can all be united in a prayer for peace. Does this mean they share the same faith? NO. Does this mean they have the same belief in who God is? NO. Do they pray to the same God? yes...in a way.

The Catholic prays to God in his understanding of the Holy Trinity, God the father, God the Son, Jesus, and God the Holy Spirit. A Protestant does as well, but may have different understandings (since there are over 25k prot denominations). The Jew prays to God the Father, is still waiting for God the Son to come, and does not know of God the Holy Spirit except in OT references. The Muslim prays to God as Allah (ocne again very different depending on the sect of Islam to whoch he adheres). The Hindu prays to whichever of his 10k gods is most appropriate at the time, while understanding they are all just manifestations of thier one chief god, Brahman. The Buddhist prays to the entirety of creation. The Indian prays to the Great Spirit.

Now, while all of them have different ideas of who God is, the fact remains that God is God. All of them pray to whatever they deem the 'Supreme Being', in whatever form they percieve him. Thusly, all are in actuality praying to the true God, whether they perceive and/or acknowledge this or not.

As Christians, we have the full revelation of who God is, given to us by his Son, Jesus Christ. We do not yet fully comprehend the Mysteries in this, but we accept them through faith, all the while attempting to more fully understand our Creator. As Catholics, we accept the full deposit of faith given to us by God through both Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture (which was created out of Sacred tradition). We are truly blessed!

So...can one pray WITH a Muslim and remain true to God, his Church, and one's own faith? Of course. Does praying with a Muslim mean you are praying to his perception of God as Allah? Of course not.

To say so is tantamount to saying Christ committed sin when he dared to eat with the tax collectors and was so presumtuous as to speak wto a woman in public

Careful with your assertions, Budge...your predjudice comes close to earning you the title of Pharisee...

Lub ya tho!