Hi Budge

[scardella]

I've been enjoying the back and forthness of all the dialogue, but I thought it might be helpful to remind everyone that I think we can [b]agree[/b] on some stuff.
[list]
[*]The Scriptures as a whole constitute the inspired Word of God
[*]Jesus, fully God and fully Man, was born of the virgin Mary, died and rose from the dead.
[*]The Trinity consists of God the Father, God the Son who became man, and God the Holy Spirit.
[*]God created all things.
[*]Through our first parents from which the human race descended, sin entered into the world.
[*]Satan is a big poopoo head. :
[/list]

[Jaime]

You might want to try something more basic to find common ground
[list]
[*]we are carbon based life forms
[*]we need oxygen to live
[*]Martin Short is annoying
[/list]
You know.. stuff we all have to agree on. (I'm not even sure Budge will concede to these points)

[scardella]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1057038' date='Sep 5 2006, 10:25 AM'][list]
[*]Martin Short is annoying
[/list]You know.. stuff we all have to agree on. (I'm not even sure Budge will concede to these points)
[/quote]

I really liked him in Three Amigos, so I'm not sure I can agree with you on that...
but your other points are cool.

[Budge]

While it appears that Christians and Catholics agree on some things...

Trinity, Satan is evil, etc...

The problem is that Roman Catholic teaches another Christ and another gospel.

Heres the BIG difference...
[size=5]
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The Roman Catholic church still teaches that salvation comes by faith + works + membership in it's church + the ingestion of it's sacraments.[/size]

[Jaime]

when you say "big" difference, are you just referring to font size?

[Budge]

Dont change the subject.

I know thats popular around here everytime the uncomfortable fact of the gospel comes up for some.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Budge' post='1057075' date='Sep 5 2006, 11:54 AM']
Dont change the subject.

I know thats popular around here everytime the uncomfortable fact of the gospel comes up for some.
[/quote]

Excellent point. Now can you take it yourself?

What's the point of this thread? Scardella wants to find what we have for common ground. What's your first move? To show differences.

So demonstrate to me how popular that tactic is. Can you stay on subject budge?

[bball33]

[quote name='Budge' post='1057057' date='Sep 5 2006, 11:33 AM']
[size=5]
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The Roman Catholic church still teaches that salvation comes by faith + works + membership in it's church + the ingestion of it's sacraments.[/size]
[/quote]

Really???
If I recall correctly, (but I'm sure this has been explained before) the Church teaches that salvation comes through grace. Sure, we ALL need to do good works. But guess what? That's tied into FAITH. If you do not have faith, no amount of good works will get you anywhere. But if you have faith, and perform good works out of that, as all are called to live their faith, then, as you can see, you have faith and good works. As far as membership in the Church and the use of sacraments-you know the truth behind that as well. Someone outside of our faith can be "saved" or go to heaven. However, if one is shown the fullness of truth, and denies it, well, that's a totally different problem. The problem is that you take your interpretation of scripture as correct, as well as your "sources" (haha chick publications?) and you throw ours out. Scardella, I don't think Budge will ever agree with us on anything, because she views it from a completely different perspective, and to admit that the Church is right about something would undermine her position against it.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Budge' post='1057075' date='Sep 5 2006, 11:54 AM']
Dont change the subject.

I know thats popular around here everytime the uncomfortable fact of the gospel comes up for some.
[/quote]

BTW I think I speak for many (naaww probably all) that no one at any time gets uncomfortable when the gospel comes up.

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1057103' date='Sep 5 2006, 12:39 PM']
BTW I think I speak for many (naaww probably all) that no one at any time gets uncomfortable when the gospel comes up.
[/quote]

Agreed. However, Holy Water burns me.

[scardella]

[quote name='Budge' post='1057057' date='Sep 5 2006, 11:33 AM']
While it appears that Christians and Catholics agree on some things...

Trinity, Satan is evil, etc...

The problem is that Roman Catholic teaches another Christ and another gospel.
[/quote]


You can't even chill out on a "lets at least list what we've got in common" thread? In my experience, it helps if you start out with "What can we agree on?" rather than starting with "Y'all are wrong and I'll tell you why."

Anyway, can I tell you a secret? (I'll put it really small so that other Catholics can't read it.) [size=1]I read the Bible too.[/size] Whew, I'm glad that's off my chest. You might find that spouting a profundity of quotes from the Bible aren't convincing people. It seems that us Catholics like to look at traditional interpretations going back to the times of the apostles, etc. New interpretations on a doctrinal level don't really fly too well. I guess it has something to do with the whole "gates of hell will not prevail" thing.

Back to the topic at hand.

Can we agree that the Apostles received all that is necessary for salvation?

Edited September 5, 2006 by scardella

[Theoketos]

I like Budge...

I want to throw in Mt 28:19, I think we all agree that Jesus said those things.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='scardella' post='1057207' date='Sep 5 2006, 02:58 PM']

Anyway, can I tell you a secret? (I'll put it really small so that other Catholics can't read it.) [size=1]I read the Bible too.[/size] [/quote]

no way!

As a Catholic, i am WAY too busy worshipping statues, conjuring up the dead, plotting with the Pope and the Devil to overthrow the civilized world, working my way to Heaven, and other nefarious theological miscues that have been spoon fed to me by the 'leave your brain at the door' Catholic Church to EVER find time to read the Bible...

you must teach me who you find time to read the... what do you call it?? yeah.. Bible...??

</sarcasm></give_me_a_freaking_break>

Kolbe

[Budge]

[quote]
As a Catholic, i am WAY too busy worshipping statues, conjuring up the dead, plotting with the Pope and the Devil to overthrow the civilized world, working my way to Heaven, and other nefarious theological miscues that have been spoon fed to me by the 'leave your brain at the door' Catholic Church to EVER find time to read the Bible...[/quote]

Ok Youve read the Bible.

Tell me TWO THINGS you learned from the book of HEBREWS.

Dont cheat now...do this off the top of your head.

[Fidei Defensor]

Budge, I really admire your dedication. While I don't agree with your views, I must say, atleast you don't abandon your cause.

However, I must offer you a bit of advice. You must strive to radiate the love of Christ. I don't think that having your first post attack the Church by claiming we teach 'another Christ' and 'another gospel' is the right way to correct anyone.

Please, I beg you, be more charitable. Remember that Christ exhorts us to love our enemies. Budge, I love you. And I pray for you. Not that you realize you are wrong, but rather, that you love Christ more and more every day, and always do His will.

But also remember, the Bible says that if you are not received in a place, that you should shake off your sandles and move on. You must realize when the time is proper for that.