Circle_Master Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 everyone here agree's there are different punishments for sin megamatt - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I think the scripture he referenced said that there are different 'Levels' of sin. which is where we get venial and mortal sins venial sins do not cause death mortal sins cause death and seperate us entirely from God until we confess and repent. so it was the levels, not punishments that were the main point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 mortal sins cause death and seperate us entirely from God until we confess and repent. The part in bold is not included in the verse - perhaps you have another which clarifies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 The part in bold is not included in the verse no need for it to be in the verse. Mortal Sin causes Death..Death of the soul, venial sin only poisons the soul..so its not Dead If the punishment is Death, then you are broke away from God. Just putting two and two together CatholicAndFanatical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 That doesnt mean you are damned because you have Mortal sin on your soul. Jesus knew the difference between Venial and Mortal, He knew that we would be seperated from Him when we sin. So He gave us a way out. He gave us the Sacrament of Reconciliation, so that we can be brought back in full Union with Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary's Knight, La Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 just to go back to the original point of the thread (sorta) you claim they were man-made sins but sin in it's objective nature is a refusal to acknowledge and act on the knowledge of God's truth the list you have pointed out is merely a set of examples of ways you can refuse to acknowledge the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 One can commit mortal sin without knowing it. In others words, if one wilfully murders or fornicates (no force involved), even if that person had never heard of the Commandments, it is a mortal sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 no need for it to be in the verse. Mortal Sin causes Death..Death of the soul, venial sin only poisons the soul..so its not Dead If the punishment is Death, then you are broke away from God. So when it says in Acts 12:2 James was put to death - that involves his soul as well? or When it say in Acts 22:4 that Paul admits he persecuted the followers of the way to their death he stole their salvation from them? or in Acts 26:10 when it says Paul put many saints to death - He is referring to their damnation as well? Death is very broadly used and very widely used. I ask again - perhaps you have another verse to compliment this. This is an awful lot of weight to be placed on one verse which the general meaning does not involve the loss of ones soul. I'll even paste the main lexicon printing for the word "the death of the body" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I would be obliged, Bruce, if you would please name one of the things that scandalized you while still practicing Catholicism, if this contributed to you leaving the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Are you feeling better, Mr. Master? I would begin to answer that Jesus in the gospels said that there is a sin not forgiven in the world to come which certainly denotes a sin unto "the second death" (death of the soul); which also implies there is a lesser sin which will be forgiven after death (a sin not unto the second death). I guess St. Paul gave a good list of who shall not enter into heaven (a sin unto the sencond death): murderers, fornicators, theives, the effeminate, etc; Then, St. John in his letters speaks of any spirit "which dissolves Jesus is not of God, and this is anti-christ..." I would think would be a sin unto the second death. I'm also thinking of the times Jesus said in the gospels, re: the wilfully unbelieving Jews - "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth", the fires of Gehena mentioned, and others cast out into the outer darkness. As well as these second death sins, of the goats Jesus will separate at the Judgement: I was hungry and you did not feed me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Are you feeling better, Mr. Master? I would begin to answer that Jesus in the gospels said that there is a sin not forgiven in the world to come which certainly denotes a sin unto "the second death" (death of the soul); which also implies there is a lesser sin which will be forgiven after death (a sin not unto the second death). I guess St. Paul gave a good list of who shall not enter into heaven (a sin unto the sencond death): murderers, fornicators, theives, the effeminate, etc; Then, St. John in his letters speaks of any spirit "which dissolves Jesus is not of God, and this is anti-christ..." I would think would be a sin unto the second death. I'm also thinking of the times Jesus said in the gospels, re: the wilfully unbelieving Jews - "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth", the fires of Gehena mentioned, and others cast out into the outer darkness. As well as these second death sins, of the goats Jesus will separate at the Judgement: I was hungry and you did not feed me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me. a) I am feeling a little better - thanks b) Jesus says the only sin which is not forgiven is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit c) If you notice about Paul, he warns Christians many times not to be like them. (the murderers, fornicators, thieves, etc.) These people who are like that are not righteous, but unrighteous. And when one is justified before God from being saved - he is made righteous before God. Not based on anything he did, but from the presence of the Holy Spirit, his new regenerate nature, and his union 'in Christ'. It is impossible for a christian to be a murderer per say before God's eyes after he is in Christ. I would need some verses to actually break it down what they are saying - there are a few different ways the terms are used in reference to Christians. d) When John speaks of the antichrist in 1 John 2:22 he says "Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son." - If someone denies the Father and the Son he was never saved in the first place, and it doesn't mention anything of a second death unless you are building something off of antichrist I do not know about. e) The goats are those in the physical local churches who go for the comfort it provides - but never are saved. Such as those who belong to the Catholic Church who go and do the sacraments, and do the eucharist, and go to church everyweek but have no committment to God except loving Him because He is giving them a gift they can abuse so they can go party all the other days of the week. I would not call them saved either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 e) The goats are those in the physical local churches who go for the comfort it provides - but never are saved. Such as those who belong to the Catholic Church who go and do the sacraments, and do the eucharist, and go to church everyweek but have no committment to God except loving Him because He is giving them a gift they can abuse so they can go party all the other days of the week. I would not call them saved either. If we have a committment to God , we are not out sinning the rest of the week. Of course we don't have the luxury of an eternal security blanket do we? thank God! We have to confess our sins and try again, prots have no such demands. WE have to show our faith thru works, instead of patting ourselves on our backs thinking how saved we are. Remember Jesus liked parties as much as we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Protestanism is tolerant there, we will allow you to go to heaven, hey why not, there is plenty of Grace in the death of Jesus for all to go around... How can a church "allow" someone to go to heaven when it has no authority to do so? Even the Catholic Church under the God-given authority of the Pope, cannot "allow" someone to go to heaven. only God can do that. Also, heresy, apostasy, incredulity and scism are definitely not "new sins." People have been rebelling against the Holy Catholic Church ever since Jesus built it upon the Rock of Peter. We have the Gnostics, the Iconoclasts and a bunch of other groups that went against the teachings of the Church. The Church is the manifestation of God on Earth through the Holy Spirit. When someone rejects any of the Church's teachings, they blaspheme against the Holy Spirit...and we all know that that's a bad, bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Romans 6:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 CCC 818: "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church." :rolling: you should read jasJis's signature :rolling: :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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