An open letter to Budge

[Farsight one]

ummm...so when Jesus refers to "the flesh", why in the world do you assume he speaks of the eucharist?

1. I, having a bit of knowledge on the culturally based differences in the ways people speak, would interpret "the flesh" to be refering to your own flesh. In other words, actions based upon desires of the flesh (sin). Which really makes that line make more sense.

2. In the off chance that Jesus is refering to the eucharist when He says "the flesh profiteth nothing", why the heck would He call it flesh, lest transubstantiation is real. In which case, it poses the added question of why would He make the host His real flesh and then tell people to avoid it?

..or maybe in the end, He was just telling the peoples that cannibalism is bad. I don't have a bible readily available to look up the rest of that passage, so I've been forced to potentially take it out of context.

[Anomaly]

OMG!
They made a DVD during a Passover Meal the year after Jesus was killed? Why wasn't that mentioned in the Bible?
Is the DVD what Scripture was referring to when it said that many more things occurred that were not written down? They were recorded? Just the fact they made the DVD before DVD players were invented is a sign from God.

Unless the DVD is just some Johnny-Come-Lately HUMAN interpretation... I hope not.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1057015' date='Sep 5 2006, 07:36 AM']
Sigh.

This takes about an HOUR to walk someone through this, and {pearls before swine...comes to mind} so the work needed is something I really don't feel moved to do this early in the morning.

Suffice it to say, I LOATH "proof texting" { stringing together disjointed verses to "prove" your STARTING assertion is biblical } meaning the WHOLE COUNSEL of God is never brought to bear on the topic at hand.

First of all, the "Last Supper" believe it or not, was NOT the "Last Supper" but a "Pasah Meal" { Passover to us Gentiles } and during that meal, Jesus used it as a "Teaching Lesson" to show the Apostles that the Passover Meal, had ALWAYS BEEN about Him, and what HE would do the next day. Every aspect of the Passover is a forshadowing of Jesus, and He used that meal to show them that.

Just as in John 6, when Jesus showed the Jews that the Ma'ana { What is It? } was a foreshadowing.

Both are extended teaching lessons, just as after his crucifixition, Jesus appeared to two disciples on the road to Emmaus to do the following: { read Luke 1 to 30 } but the key line is this one...
Now without actually getting your nose out of church DOGMA's, and opening your mind to the full sweep of history, Jewish practice, and the ENTIRE bible that points to Jesus, you will continue to MISS out the "teaching lessons" that Jesus's entire life practice constititutes.

I could go on and on, but again, the work to cast pearls isn't in me this morning.

HOWEVER, if anyone here, actually cares one iota, and really wants to learn more, and do it the EASY WAY, I highly recommend this DVD movie, after veiwing it, and the key scene, the Passover Dinner the first year AFTER Jesus died, you will be much the better for having done so.

[img]http://www.christiananswers.net/catalog/passover-dvd-front.jpg[/img]

You can watch snippets online here:

[url="http://www.christiananswers.net/catalog/passover-vs.html"]MOVIE ONLINE TO PREVIEW[/url]
[/quote]
Actually, if you study the Mass from a Catholic perspective, and Jewish worship as prescribed in the Old Testament, you will see that the Mass is indeed the perfect fulfillment of Jewish worship. It is the Perfect Sacrifice of Christ, which fullfills what the imperfect sacrifice of the old testament (the blood of goats and bulls could not). This is actually a fascinating topic.

However, I suppose we can now disregard the teachings in the Gospel of John, and the words of St. Paul in scripture, and the consistant teaching of the successors of the Apostles and the Church Fathers, because we have . . . a[b] movie[/b]!
So this movie proves the truth of what Jesus was [i]really[/i] up to with all that stuff!
I suppose it was filmed on location in 34 AD Jerusalem! I'll be sure to find a space for it on my shelf right next to the "Alien Autopsy" DVD.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1057015' date='Sep 5 2006, 08:36 AM']
Sigh.

This takes about an HOUR to walk someone through this, and {pearls before swine...comes to mind} so the work needed is something I really don't feel moved to do this early in the morning.

Suffice it to say, I LOATH "proof texting" { stringing together disjointed verses to "prove" your STARTING assertion is biblical } meaning the WHOLE COUNSEL of God is never brought to bear on the topic at hand.

First of all, the "Last Supper" believe it or not, was NOT the "Last Supper" but a "Pasah Meal" { Passover to us Gentiles } and during that meal, Jesus used it as a "Teaching Lesson" to show the Apostles that the Passover Meal, had ALWAYS BEEN about Him, and what HE would do the next day. Every aspect of the Passover is a forshadowing of Jesus, and He used that meal to show them that.

Just as in John 6, when Jesus showed the Jews that the Ma'ana { What is It? } was a foreshadowing.

Both are extended teaching lessons, just as after his crucifixition, Jesus appeared to two disciples on the road to Emmaus to do the following: { read Luke 1 to 30 } but the key line is this one...
Now without actually getting your nose out of church DOGMA's, and opening your mind to the full sweep of history, Jewish practice, and the ENTIRE bible that points to Jesus, you will continue to MISS out the "teaching lessons" that Jesus's entire life practice constititutes.

I could go on and on, but again, the work to cast pearls isn't in me this morning.

HOWEVER, if anyone here, actually cares one iota, and really wants to learn more, and do it the EASY WAY, I highly recommend this DVD movie, after veiwing it, and the key scene, the Passover Dinner the first year AFTER Jesus died, you will be much the better for having done so.

[img]http://www.christiananswers.net/catalog/passover-dvd-front.jpg[/img]

You can watch snippets online here:

[url="http://www.christiananswers.net/catalog/passover-vs.html"]MOVIE ONLINE TO PREVIEW[/url]
[/quote]

Hmm..."teaching lessons"...sounds very "liberal/historical/critical"-babble to me...would that be J, E, P, or D?

[chris]

[quote]and {pearls before swine...comes to mind} [/quote]

Then why did you start all this stuff from the begining? You and your counterpart need to think before you act...Read some of the proverbs.

[Eutychus]

[quote] Protestants are the ONLY Christian demonination that do not believe in the True Pressence. [/quote]

How silly, how shallow.

The Holy Spirit is living WITHIN ME right now, scripture states that "THESE THREE ARE ONE"

[quote]1Jo 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one[/quote]

Therefore, when I do the "Rememberance Feast/Eucharist" I come to the table WITH JESUS ALREADY in me, via the HS. No morsel of bread, can GIVE ME, what I had to begin with. And ten hours later, MY "Jesus/HS/God" is STILL within me, while yours is .... well as the bible states...

[quote]Mt 15:17

Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? {sewer}[/quote]

Edited September 6, 2006 by Eutychus

[XIX]

So...do you, like Budge, believe that the Catholic Church endorses homosexuality?

[journeyman]

ok, that question is not off topic . . . page one contained that issue . . . on page 2 we were diverted into scriptural interpretation . . .

[Eutychus]

[quote]So...do you, like Budge, believe that [u]the Catholic Church endorses homosexuality? [/u][/quote]

Endorses? Heck no, your paperwork is PERFECT!

However your priests don't seem to care what the paperwork teaches and says.

If you seem to think I'm talking out of school, here is 1,300 pages of corroboration just published by a Catholic researcher.

[url="http://www.riteofsodomy.com/"]EXPENSIVE, BUT CHEAPER THAN THE LAWSUITS[/url]

[url="http://www.riteofsodomy.com/reviews/CFN_Interview.htm"]EXTENSIVE REVEIW, CATHOLIC *FAMILY NEWS* WITH EXCERPTS[/url]

Edited September 9, 2006 by Eutychus

[Veritas]

+

There have always been renegades and there always will be renegades (we wouldn't have protestants without them). Jesus will separate the wheat when he comes again. You are both angry about homosexuality in the Church and so are we. It shouldn't be there, we should all be sinless, but, we're not. Has there been corruption in the Church? Yes. Does that mean the teaching authority of the magisterium is impacted? No. What do we do in the mean time? We forgive, teach, and heal. Making physical changes when and where necessary.

Budge, what the priest did at your parish is abominable. Yes, by all accounts he should be removed from public ministry. That being said, it IS up to the Bishop. He has the authority and the burden on his soul. Not you or I --thank God.

By the way, Cozzens and his crew are no legit source --Everybody knows that! They've got an agenda a mile high --it's sad and horrible, but we're here to pray! Pray on Catholics, Pray on!

[Eutychus]

[quote]Jesus will separate the wheat when he comes again. [/quote]

Whimpy answer.

A real church, Jesus's church, GOD's church, tosses the REPROBATEs out of leadership NOW.

Some people, are REALLY followers of the Pauline instructions, they KNOW and BELIEVE Romans, Corintians, and the Timothy letters. Others just make excuses.

[Veritas]

Call it wimpy if you want, but it's in the Bible.

Using your logic, you may also wonder why Jesus didn't throw Peter out, heck and everyone else, who denied and deserted him. Please , allow me to remind you: He came to forgive sinners!

Now, that being said, those who persist in sin need to go until they repent. We're all in agreement about that. As far as timing, and those visits with two and three --those are up to the bishop . I love apostolic succession.

I like you Eutychus.
I can't wait until you enter the Church!

Edited September 9, 2006 by Veritas

[Eutychus]

[quote]Using your logic, you may also wonder why Jesus didn't throw Peter out, heck and everyone else, who denied and deserted him. Please smile.gif , allow me to remind you: He came to forgive sinners! [/quote]

Oh, the biblical illiterates.

Have you ever read Matthew 23 in it's entirety? He was gentle to the downtrodden, and harsh with the proud, ESPECIALLY those in religious leadership, them he pulled no punches with.

And our "gentle Jesus" walked right into the Vatican and turned over the tables of the indulgence sellers.....didn't He? { updated version } if you want to really update it, Jesus went to Fatima and turned over the tables of the Catholic brick-a-brack sellers.

[stbernardLT]

I'm sorry I don't remember Jesus dening being a jew after the temple incident. In fact he still celebrated Passover before he died.

You see just because something went wrong (indulgences, pedophile and homosexual priest) doesn't mean we should deny the Holy church. We should correct it and realize, just as Jesus did that peoples actions shouldn't be a representation of the truth and love of God.

Good thing Jesus wasn't a protestant. He could of started the First Holy Church of the Temple Crashers.

[XIX]

[quote]Oh, the biblical illiterates.

Have you ever read Matthew 23 in it's entirety? He was gentle to the downtrodden, and harsh with the proud, ESPECIALLY those in religious leadership, them he pulled no punches with.[/quote]
Yeah. Just like the Pope!

[quote]Endorses? Heck no, your paperwork is PERFECT![/quote]
So when it comes from Rome, it's "paperwork"

[quote]However your priests don't seem to care what the paperwork teaches and says.

If you seem to think I'm talking out of school, here is 1,300 pages of corroboration just published by a Catholic researcher.[/quote]
But when it comes from some priests, it's "1300 pages of corroboration."

At least you've conceded that the Church doesn't endorse homosexuality. Now the next step is to stop acting like they do.