This Verse Proves NO Such thing as Co-Redemptrix or Co-Redeemers

[nawtyeravgjoe]

i don't know if i have permission to do this, so a moderator can delete it if i'm out of line.

a talk entitled "Mary: Blueprint of Redemption" by Fr. Calloway, given july 8th.

[url="http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/8/25/184957/blueprint%20of%20redemption.mp3"]Mary: Blueprint of Redemption[/url]

around 43 minutes, but worth it if you really wanna learn what the Role of Mary is.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056247' date='Sep 3 2006, 07:37 PM']
Jesus saves not Mary...
[size=4]
Act 4:12 [u]Neither is there salvation in any other:[/u] for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.[/size]
[/quote]


Did I say mary saves? No, I proved you wrong Mary does have a role in salvation. Mary helps and has a great role in salvation, but she is not Salvation, Christ is Salvation.

Edited September 4, 2006 by KnightofChrist

[Budge]

If they name that new doctrine {that Maraville has been pushing for years}--Mary as Co-Redemptrix, how many of you are going to agree with it?

The Popes already call her that.

And I dont buy the semantic playing with the word CO, when they dig their hole deeper saying it means 'only' WITH....

Mary as scripture says played NO ROLE in our REDEMPTION.

Edited September 4, 2006 by Budge

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056458' date='Sep 4 2006, 09:47 AM']
Mary as scripture says played NO ROLE in our REDEMPTION.
[/quote]

Let me ask you this question: what would have happened if Mary told the archangel Gabriel "No"?

[Budge]

God knew who would have said YES or NO....

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056458' date='Sep 4 2006, 10:47 AM']
Mary as scripture says played NO ROLE in our REDEMPTION.
[/quote]

I mad a sandwich the other day. Now, obviously the "in-between" ingredients--the coagulated milk, the meat--are an essential part of the sandwich because then you'd just have to boring slices of Wonderbread. Similarly, the meat & coagulated milk, without the bread, doesn't make a sandwich. Basically, each unit has a role (no pun intended), not necessarily an equal one, but a role nonetheless.

That's how I think of Mary...she has a [b]roll[/b] in our salvation in that her [i]fiat[/i] allowed Christ to enter our midst. It is narrow-minded to belittle the fact that a 14-year old poor girl who was not married allowed herself to become impregnanted by the Holy Spirit. She could've been stoned...by her fiance, no less.

Sometimes I don't get Prots....there are things in Catholic dogma that require a little more studying to really believe; however, I have always found that our Catholic faith's teachings on Mary are probably the most easily-accessable.


P.S.- I apologize if my analogy is a bit juvenile...I'm a youth ministry.

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056458' date='Sep 4 2006, 10:47 AM']
Mary as scripture says played NO ROLE in our REDEMPTION.
[/quote]

I mad a sandwich the other day. Now, obviously the "in-between" ingredients--the coagulated milk, the meat--are an essential part of the sandwich because then you'd just have to boring slices of Wonderbread. Similarly, the meat & coagulated milk, without the bread, doesn't make a sandwich. Basically, each unit has a role (no pun intended), not necessarily an equal one, but a role nonetheless.

That's how I think of Mary...she has a [b]roll[/b] in our salvation in that her [i]fiat[/i] allowed Christ to enter our midst. It is narrow-minded to belittle the fact that a 14-year old poor girl who was not married allowed herself to become impregnanted by the Holy Spirit. She could've been stoned...by her fiance, no less.

Sometimes I don't get Prots....there are things in Catholic dogma that require a little more studying to really believe; however, I have always found that our Catholic faith's teachings on Mary are probably the most easily-accessable.


P.S.- I apologize if my analogy is a bit juvenile...I'm a youth minister.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056516' date='Sep 4 2006, 01:11 PM']
God knew who would have said YES or NO....
[/quote]If He knew, then her "yes" to Christ is meaningless. Along with everyone else who says "yes," she just becomes a victim of pre-destination.

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056458' date='Sep 4 2006, 10:47 AM']
Mary as scripture says played NO ROLE in our REDEMPTION.
[/quote]

I mad a sandwich the other day. Now, obviously the "in-between" ingredients--the coagulated milk, the meat--are an essential part of the sandwich because then you'd just have to boring slices of Wonderbread. Similarly, the meat & coagulated milk, without the bread, doesn't make a sandwich. Basically, each unit has a role (no pun intended), not necessarily an equal one, but a role nonetheless.

That's how I think of Mary...she has a [b]roll[/b] in our salvation in that her [i]fiat[/i] allowed Christ to enter our midst. It is narrow-minded to belittle the fact that a 14-year old poor girl who was not married allowed herself to become impregnanted by the Holy Spirit. She could've been stoned...by her fiance, no less.

Sometimes I don't get Prots....there are things in Catholic dogma that require a little more studying to really believe; however, I have always found that our Catholic faith's teachings on Mary are probably the most easily-accessable.


P.S.- I apologize if my analogy is a bit juvenile...I'm a youth minister.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056516' date='Sep 4 2006, 12:11 PM']
God knew who would have said YES or NO....
[/quote]

That's not what I asked......

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Mary already IS Co-Redemptrix.

Quick Latin Lesson: "Co"="WITH"
Thus, Mary is the "woman WITH the Redeemer". She was WITH Jesus from His conception until His sacrificial death on the cross.

Budge, do you agree that Jesus' human flesh came from Mary?

[Budge]

The Mary of Catholicism bears absolutely no resemblance to the Mary of the Bible

The Mary of the Bible would have told you she needed a savior as well, and that to put her on the level with Jesus,[b] WITH[/b], was blasphemy.

It is interesting how Mary gets all these new titles, new doctrines attributed to her, while Jesus is ignored more and more.

This is Collyridian heresy renewed.

You all act as if Mary was running the show, she WAS NOT.

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056616' date='Sep 4 2006, 03:59 PM']
The Mary of Catholicism bears absolutely no resemblance to the Mary of the Bible

The Mary of the Bible would have told you she needed a savior as well, and that to put her on the level with Jesus,[b] WITH[/b], was blasphemy.

It is interesting how Mary gets all these new titles, new doctrines attributed to her, while Jesus is ignored more and more.

This is Collyridian heresy renewed.

You all act as if Mary was running the show, she WAS NOT.
[/quote]

1. The term "WITH" means that she was with him in the same way that you are WITH your keyboard and your King James Version of the Bible right now.

2. Read the Magnificat in Luke, brother.

3. Never once has anyone here made mention of Mary "running the show." We are saying that she is not just some peasant girl who stumbled upon pre-destination. She made a choice FOR Christ, just like you make a choice for Christ.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056616' date='Sep 4 2006, 03:59 PM']This is Collyridian heresy renewed.[/quote]Boy, that's a stretch.

[quote name='Budge' post='1056616' date='Sep 4 2006, 03:59 PM']You all act as if Mary was running the show, she WAS NOT.[/quote]Do you really believe this stuff? Who acts as if Mary was "running the show"?

If you can't maintain a minimal level of honesty in your posts, why should we take dialogue with you seriously?

[stbernardLT]

If Jesus was actually God, then Him being inside mary would make her a tabernacle, the New Ark. Tell the Hebrews the ark has nothing to do [b]with[/b] redemption.

Quick Biology Lesson:
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. This means that Jesus was once an egg on the ovary of the blessed mother. This also means that she passed on herself to Him, genes and traits. Nine months after she conceived, a baby was born that contained his mother and her heritage. He was half his mother. She nursed Him and gave even more of herself to Him. God knew that she would pass herself on to Him. That is why he chose her. He wanted His son to possess human qualities that he thought would suit a King. We all agree that Jesus died for our sins and that this act alone forgives all sins, but who was Jesus if he didn't consist of part of His mother. Not only was Mary there at the crucifixion, but she was their biologically inside her son, whom she gave life to in the human sense. This therefore not only acknowledges her actions as being part of Gods plan for redemption, but that her very flesh and blood were there in her son as he hung on the cross.

I hope we don't have to go as far as the Maury show to prove this to you.

To deny Mary as part of the redeemer is to deny the redeemer himself.