hmm what would you choose? Schism or heresy?

[Picard]

Okay here it is. I work on Sundays, so I am forced to go to a Church on the way to work so I won't be late. Well, last Sunday at the "Holy" Sacrifice of the Mass (at a Catholic Church with no crucifix and a naked altar) the Priest said the following during his homily "Well like I said last week, a long time ago there was a lot of argument about whether Jesus was actually in the communion bread and wine. Well let me tell you this. Jesus didn’t specify whether he was there spiritually or physically. As a matter of fact it says nowhere in the bible that he is there physically, all it says is that he is present in the bread and wine. So as long as you believe he is there spiritually its okay [smiles]." Then after some more talking about the scripture reading the oh so holy Priest walked, yes walked, out of the church. In astonishment I thought to myself "where in the hell is he going?!” Then an older Priest, who must have been retired because I never saw him there before, did the consecration and finished the Mass. The consubstantiation Priest did not even bother to show up again to hand out communion! I was not pleased and pondered whether any of the Masses I have attended with the heretical Priest were valid.

Now my friends; where dose Picard go on his days off then? Well my father and I drive an hour to the slums of Flint (a rapidly declining auto factory city here in Michigan) to go to an Indult Mass. (The other drivable indult Mass is in the homeless ghetto of downtown Detroit. coincidence?)

Now two miles, yes two miles away from me, the Tridentine Mass is celebrated every day at a very healthy parish. One problem, the celebrants are a rouge sedevacant Bishop (around here we call him Darth Vader) and his priests who left SSPX because they were not radical enough. The validly ordained bishop is the only sedevacant bishop west of New York. (for more info about him and his church near me please see www.stdominicchapel.com)

So I now have two options

A) Go to the heresy parish where the real presence is denied by the Priests who celebrate it with out any protest from the parishioners

Or

B) Go to the schismatic parish 2 friggin miles away where the real presence is believed in (unfortunately I believe both of the parishes Priests have little respect for the Pope)

Well I have all ready chose the heretics because, even though they are heterodox, canon law says for some dumb reason that as long as the Priest recognizes the archbishop of Detroit and the Pope the Mass he celebrates fulfills the Sunday obligation. (Even though I can find more reverence at an Episcopalian service than any of his masses) Besides I wouldnt be a very good sedevacant, as you can see I have a picture of the Holy Father as my signature.

(FYI all other local parishes offer Mass at a later time that would interfere with my work schedule, and I work at a Hospital so I can’t really negotiate when I can show up for work)

Well my rant is over. But back to my thread title, what would you choose? Heresy or schism if you were in my situation? I’m curious to see what you guys would do and your comments on my little situation.

Edited September 3, 2006 by Picard

[Resurrexi]

As much as I love the Traditional Latin Mass (I attend my local indult every Sunday and Holyday), and as much as I think the Saturday evening vigil isn't very orthodox, I would say to go on Saturday night at the closest non-heretical Novus Ordo parish near you. I would never go to a Sedevacantist ''mass'' even if it were the only Mass within 2 hours drive of me.

[brendan1104]

You cannot choose the heterodox one- if there is no valid consecration, your obligation is NOT fulfilled.

I do NOT recommend sedevacantist chapels- but I have no reason to doubt Bishop Neville's orders, nor his intentions, form, and matter in confecting the other sacraments.

If you are unable to attend a valid Mass in full communion, then I can only see the sedevacantist chapel as your only option.

Once again I DO NOT recommend sedevacantist chapels at all- except out of real neccessity. Canon Law says that obligations are fulfilled at any Catholic rite. From what I understand from various, reliable sources the sedevacantist option is acceptable under these particular circumstances.

Edited September 3, 2006 by brendan1104

[Picard]

[quote name='brendan1104' post='1055802' date='Sep 2 2006, 10:08 PM']
If you have true reason to doubt the validity of the Consecration and/or Mass there, then you are bound to attend some other Catholic Church. Period. Even if the other Church is schismatic- they're not heretical. Bishop Neville has valid orders...however I would attend another Catholic Church- besides the heretical and schismatic ones.
[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification . Thats what I was thinking but I was not sure if I was right or not. I am taking St. Thomas Moore's suggestion to try and find a saturady mass for me to go to after work (that hadnt occured to me since I get off at 6 pm, I have always assumed they all took place at 5 pm on staurdays.) I'm also trying to find a mass on Sunday evenings, hopefully there is one around me. If not, sedevacants here I come

[XIX]

Yeah, schism isn't as bad as heresy.

But avoid both at pretty much all costs.

[brendan1104]

Remember- you're going out of neccessity, and not a sedevacantist so you're not schismatic.

[Picard]

Well I managed to find a parish with a Mass at 6 pm near my work so I sneaked out early to go. So I didnt have to go to the sedevacants to fulfill my obligation. I found a couple of churches that give Spanish Mass at 9 pm with in an hours drive so I guess thats where I will have to go on future Sundays (which may be better, I've noticed foriegn Masses tend to be more orthodox). I still think its stupid that I can't find a valid Mass in my local area, and the only one that is valid is done by schismatics two miles away! Perhaps I should write Cardinal Maida to tell him about his heretical Priests... I doubt he knows what is happening out in the fringe and frontier of his diocese where we live at. Oh well, btw thanks for the input guys.

[brendan1104]

Watch out- it may be a Mariachi Mass- complete with a band and dancers- and I don't mean liturgical.

[Resurrexi]

Why would it matter if the dances were 'liturgical' or not? Both 'liturgical' and non-'liturgical' are liturgically abusive and evil.

[goldenchild17]

Definitely go to the Sedevacantist priest. I'm Sedevacantist so that's what I would do. But from a Novus Ordo perspective, I still think this would be the better option. At least your Mass would be valid, even according to Novus Ordo.

[quote name='Picard' post='1055806' date='Sep 2 2006, 09:18 PM']
Thanks for the clarification . Thats what I was thinking but I was not sure if I was right or not. I am taking St. Thomas Moore's suggestion to try and find a saturady mass for me to go to after work (that hadnt occured to me since I get off at 6 pm, I have always assumed they all took place at 5 pm on staurdays.) I'm also trying to find a mass on Sunday evenings, hopefully there is one around me. If not, sedevacants here I come
[/quote]

Your not a part of any Sedevacantist order and you don't support their "heresy" as it is called. So according to Novus Ordo you are not in danger of heresy. Unless you start espousing what the orders believe, then I think it gets dicey. But from what you are saying I don't think you have anything to worry about on Novus Ordo standards.

Edited September 8, 2006 by goldenchild17