The 4 Marks

[HomeTeamFamily]

hey phatpham ive got an apologetics issue here

let me give yall some background for my question:

my ex girlfriend and i were chatting (she is a protestant).....and i was telling her about this amesome book i got called "College Apologetics: proof of the Truth of the Catholic Faith" .....yada....yada...yada.....it came that she asked if i thought that other denominations were false and i said "not necessairly false, but holding not the full Truth"......and the book makes the main distinction that non Catholic Christian sects do not hold the full Truth because they lack the 4 marks of Christs Church....i briefly explained them to her and in the book it says for the first one "One in doctrine and government"

she came back and questioned the use of government there and i said that i wasnt very sure because im still early in the book but that i would find out for her.....i told her that i think government has a different context in that usage than she was thinking.

ok now for my question....is there anything errant about my comments?.....and can someone please help me explain what was meant by government in that sentence?....explanations or links would be amesome

pray hard, love always, be His

adam

ps. the book is by Fr, Anthony F. Alexander......if you have the book, the page im sort of referencing is page 2 on the apologetics chart.

[Mary's Knight, La]

our church has a government/hierarchy hence pope->bishops->priests->us(except Fr. Pontifex, see prests) what it means if i remember correctly is that the beliefs and government support eachother...

[Lil Red]

FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be:

-one,

-holy,

-catholic, and

-apostolic

The Church is One (Romans 12:5; 1 Corinthians 10:17, 12:13; CCC 813-822)

Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the church is the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:23-32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and His spouse is the Catholic Church.

His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Philippians 1:27, 2:2).

Although some Catholics dissent from officially-taught doctrines, the Church's official teachers - the pope and the bishops united with him - have never changed any doctrine. Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12-13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

The Church is Holy (Ephesians 5:25-27; Revelation 19:7-8; CCC 823-829)

By His grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as He is holy. This doesn't mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matthew 7:21-23).

But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Ephesians 5:26).

The Church is Catholic (Matthew 28:19-20; Revelation 5:9-10; CCC 830-856)

Jesus' Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is His gift to all people. He told His apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matthew 28:19-20).

For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that He wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Galatians 3:28).

Today, the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matthew 28:19).

The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius' time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church is Apostolic (Ephesians 2:19-20; CCC 857-865)

The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because He appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition (2 Timothy 2:2).

These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary's special role, and much more - even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself.

Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other church can make that claim.

Brought to you by:

Saint Charles Borromeo Catholic Church, Picayune, MS, USA

St. Borromeo Catholic Church website

[phatcatholic]

pham,

the following is an exerpt from the following link: Section 7: The Holy Catholic Church which explains alot about the nature of the Church.

27. The “four marks of the Church”

The Nicene Creed mentions four “marks of the Church:” “I believe in one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church.” If anyone wonders which of the 20,000 different

-22- churches that claim to be Christ’s true church is really the one Christ established, this is how to recognize it. Only one church has all four marks: the Catholic Church.

It is found by both faith and reason. “Only faith can recognize that the Church possesses these properties from her divine source [as opposed to a merely human source]. But their historical manifestations are signs that also speak clearly to human reason” (C 812).

28. The first mark of the Church: oneness

How is the Church one?

1) Essentially, the Church is one because Christ her Head is one. A head with many bodies is a monstrosity, like a body with many heads. For the Church is an organic unity (though spiritual rather than biological), not just a legal one. A CEO can head many companies, but your head can’t have two bodies.

2) Scripture tells us that the Church is one because she has “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Eph 4:5). Because it is Christ her Lord that makes her one, the Church insists on right faith – creedal orthodoxy – so that we know who Christ is. The “one faith” identifies the “one Lord.” So does the “one baptism,” which begins that Lord’s divine life in the soul of the baptized.The creeds define, and the sacraments communicate, this “one Lord.”

3) The Church is also one in charity. Her Lord’s essential command is charity (Jn 15:9-12), for “God is charity” (1 Jn 4:16).Therefore “above all, charity binds everything together” (1 Cor 3:14). 4) “But the unity of the . . . Church is also assured by visible bonds of communion:

[a] profession of one faith received from the Apostles;

[b) common celebration of divine worship, especially of the sacraments;

[c] apostolic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders…. ” (C 815) For it is a matter of historical fact that “‘the apostles took care to appoint successors’373” (C 860).

29. Unity and diversity in the Church

“From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity . . . .‘Holding a rightful place in the communion of this Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions’263” (C 814).

A body is both one and many.“For as the body is one and has many members [organs, limbs…], yet all the members, though many, are one body, so also is Christ” (1 Cor 12:3).

Pennies in a pile are neither profoundly one (they are not dependent on each other) nor profoundly different (they are identical and replaceable). Organs in a body are both profoundly one (for they are dependent on each other for life and working together for the health of the whole body) and profoundly different (e.g. the lung and the kidney).

30. Solidarity

The unity in a body is so great that “if one member suffers anything, all the members suffer with him, and if one -24- member is honored, all the members together rejoice” (1 Cor 12:26) – for instance, in a family or a nation.The assassinations of Lincoln and Kennedy harmed all of America, and thus all Americans.

There is a Russian word for this kind of unity: sobornost (usually translated as “universality” or catholicity). A similar Polish word is solidarinosc: solidarity. It is the basis in objective reality for the life of charity. Charity is realistic. It is how bodies stay alive.

All prayers help all members of Christ’s Body, not just the ones consciously prayed for. Every good deed makes the whole Body stronger. And every evil deed makes it weaker. All sins harm all members of the Body, not only the ones visibly and immediately banned.There are no private sins, no victimless crimes. Every failure of love to anyone harms everyone.

31. Ecumenism and “other churches”

Though there are particular Churches and various rites within the one Church, there are no “other churches;” there is but one Church. Christ has only one Body, one Bride. He is not a bigamist.

However, his one Body is torn and ounded. Though its essential unity is indestructible, its visible signs of unity are not. Already in New Testament times there were divisions: schisms, heresies, and apostasies. The Apostle Paul found this not merely unfortunate but intolerable. No one can read 1 Corinthians 1-3 and be in doubt what Paul would say about our far worse and wider divisions today.

-25-

These wounds must be healed.Working and praying for ecumenical reunification is not an option but a requirement (so said Pope John Paul II in “Ut Unum Sint”).

We can find the right road, back to unity, only by retracing our path back to where the wrong road, the road to divisions, began. They began with sin.We are not one

with each other because we are not one with God.“The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body . . . do not occur without human sin. . . . [O]ften enough, men of both sides were to blame” (C 817).Therefore our divisions will be undone only if sin is conquered. And only Christ can conquer sin. Reunion will come when all Christians put Christ’s will above their own. Only when all the instrumentalists

follow the conductor’s baton does the orchestra play in harmony.The key to ecumenism is the same as the key to all Catholic ideas: the lordship of Christ.

32. How to work for reunion

“The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit279” (C 820).

“Certain things are required to respond adequately to this call:

[1] “A permanent renewal of the Church in greater fidelity to her vocation.…” [note the paradox here: the re-new-al comes by fidelity, i.e. faithfulness to the old, the origin, the marriage vows between Christ and the Church. All significant ecumenical progress so far has come about through a return to common sources, as Vatican II called for: the Church Fathers, the Bible, and ultimately Christ himself]; -26-

[2] “Conversion of heart as the faithful ‘try to live holier lives according to the Gospel’, for it is the unfaithfulness of the members which causes divisions” [if it took sin to cause the divisions, it will take sanctity to heal them];

[3] “Prayer in common... should be regarded as the soul of the whole ecumenical movement, and merits the name ‘spiritual ecumenism’” [when Catholics and Protestants put their knees together in common prayer, God will put their heads together to understand common truths];

[4] “Fraternal knowledge of each other” [for many divisions arose and are maintained from mutual ignorance and misunderstanding];

[5] “Ecumenical formation of the faithful and especially of priests;

[6] “Dialogue among theologians and... among Christians of the different churches….

[7] “[C]ollaboration among Christians in various areas of service to mankind….286”[Protestants and Catholics who share a jail cell for trying to save

lives by protesting abortion, or who run inner city homeless shelters or drug rehabilitation programs, have often found that their common orthopraxy (right action) has opened their eyes to a common orthodoxy (right belief).The heart and the hands can sometimes lead and educate the head] (C 821).

[8] “But we must realize ‘that this holy objective – the reconciliation of all Christians in the unity of the -27- one and only Church of Christ – transcends human powers and gifts’288” (C 822).We can no more save the Church from the divisions our sins caused than we can save ourselves. Only Christ can save us from sin and only Christ can save his Church from divisions.

33. Are Protestants to blame for church divisions?

Yes. And so are Catholics.

“‘However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . .All those who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ . . .’272” (C 818).They are our “separated

brethren.”

“Christ’s Spirit uses these churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church” (C 819). The Protestant limbs that broke off from the Catholic tree can still have enough lifegiving sap (God’s truth and grace) from the root (Christ) through the trunk (the Catholic Church) to be the means

of salvation for their members.The Church of Christ subsists in the Roman Catholic Church.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

click on the link i provided above for the remaining marks of the church, and more on the nature of the Church.

i hope this helps..........pax christi,

phatcatholic

[HomeTeamFamily]

thanks all for the responses.......

so basically government refers to the ONE doctrine that Catholics believe in and the officials (Pope, Bishops, Cardinals, Priests) that help to maintain and "enforce" (for lack of a better word) it?

peace and God bless

adam

[phatcatholic]

so basically government refers to the ONE doctrine that Catholics believe in and the officials (Pope, Bishops, Cardinals, Priests) that help to maintain and "enforce" (for lack of a better word) it?

yes, i think so. afterall, it is the authority of the church (the bishops and the pope) that helps maintain unity. the church authority, or "government" teaches us and guides us so that we never stray from the truth. in doing so, they ensure that Christ's Church remains "One."

also see the following articles:

--Unity (As a Mark of the Church)

--Christian Unity and the Role of Authority

--Communion and Unity: Biblical Injunctions

--Why the Church Needs Authority

--On the Nature of Ecumenism, Dogma, and Christian Unity

i hope this helps........pax christi,

phatcatholic

[Anna]

One might ask: What is the purpose of government? (We're not talking politics here, but governance...leadership.) It is to keep a sense of order and direction. To keep things on the right track.

Then, one might ask, "Who is the leader of the Protestant Church?" There is none. They specifically fled that mark of Church, when Luther defied the pope's authority. He invented Sola Scriptura, the concept that the Bible is the sole authority left to us by Christ.

But if that were so, Christianity would not be in disorder: we would all read, and believe the same thing, wouldn't we?

That is why we need govern-ment in the Church.

Obviously, Christ knew this (since He is All-Knowing! ) and obviously, this is why He appointed Peter as the first pope.

Pax Christi. <><