Clinton Communion

[zunshynn]

Okay, so I was doing a search online and came across a picture of Bill Clinton recieving communion. I was looking at articles from that, but I don't remember hearing about that at all (I'm sure I wouldn't have cared anyway at the time)... so I was wondering if someone who did know something about it could just kind of summarize what happened for me... so I don't have to read all of those articles?

[Ash Wednesday]

It happened quite a few years ago when he was in Africa, and yes understandably it did cause controvery and a great deal of criticism from the Catholic community including John Cardinal O'Connor. Apparently there are various versions of what happened. One version was the White House was informed more or less ahead of time the guidelines for receiving communion and the White House team told the priest that the Clintons (with Hillary) would probably not participate, but apparently they were wrong. The priest gave both of them communion and he was quoted as being afraid of seeming rude to the "most powerful man in the world" and didn't want to tell him to sit down. Another version is that the White House claimed they received an open invitation to receive because of some more "open and ecumenical" policy adopted by South African Bishops (which I doubt would have happened under the Vatican's watch. At best it would have been a parish's misinterpretation of something...) I'm not sure what the actual events were but obviously the ball was dropped on that one.

Edited August 28, 2006 by Ash Wednesday

[brendan1104]

Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have given Communion to two popular protestants, knowing full well they were protestants- Tony Blair, and Brother Roger... if the pope can disobey church law, what's a priest supposed to do?

[Norseman82]

I remember that incident because it was on the Sunday that the story of the woman caught in adultery was the gospel reading and the media made a point of noting how visibly uncomfortable Clinton was listening to it, since this was right in the middle of Monicagate.

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1052014' date='Aug 28 2006, 04:33 AM']
The priest gave both of them communion and he was quoted as being afraid of seeming rude to the "most powerful man in the world" and didn't want to tell him to sit down. [/quote]

I thought that it was the most powerful Man in the world that was being given to Clinton.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='brendan1104' post='1052122' date='Aug 28 2006, 10:27 AM']
Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have given Communion to two popular protestants, knowing full well they were protestants- Tony Blair, and Brother Roger... [b]if the pope can disobey church law, what's a priest supposed to do?[/b]
[/quote]

i don't think that is an excuse.....

ask St. Athanasius........

[Dave]

[quote name='brendan1104' post='1052122' date='Aug 28 2006, 01:27 PM']
Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have given Communion to two popular protestants, knowing full well they were protestants- Tony Blair, and Brother Roger... if the pope can disobey church law, what's a priest supposed to do?
[/quote]

As for Brother Roger, he got in the Communion line by accident. And besides, no priest may refuse Communion to anyone who goes up to receive unless it's a manifest public sinner. Think about it -- a priest is distributing Communion, and one person is coming up right after the other. A priest doesn't have enough time between picking up a Host from the ciborium and holding It up to the communicant for it to register with him that the person standing before him isn't Catholic. His main intent during the Communion of the Mass is to distribute the Eucharist, and so worrying about whether or not each person coming up is Catholic or in the state of grace is the least of his concerns at that moment.

[brendan1104]

I wasn't condoning what the popes did- what I'm saying is, they were wrong and the excuse goes: "if the pope can do it, why not me?" Cardinal Ratzinger knew full well it was Brother Roger- have you seen how slow papal/large-scale formal Masses' communion lines go? And plus he was in a wheel chair so that's just another way of identification.

[zunshynn]

who is this Brother Roger? Pardon my ignorance...

[isilzha]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1052126' date='Aug 28 2006, 12:45 PM']
I thought that it was the most powerful Man in the world that was being given to Clinton.
[/quote]

[brendan1104]

The founder of the Taize community.
[url="http://www.taize.fr/en"]http://www.taize.fr/en[/url]

[quote name='zunshynn' post='1052388' date='Aug 28 2006, 09:32 PM']
who is this Brother Roger? Pardon my ignorance...
[/quote]

[catholicinsd]

I really don't think it was that big of deal. Misunderstandings like that happen.

[Era Might]

[quote name='brendan1104' post='1052122' date='Aug 28 2006, 12:27 PM']Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have given Communion to two popular protestants, knowing full well they were protestants- Tony Blair, and Brother Roger... if the pope can disobey church law, what's a priest supposed to do? [/quote]
Brother Roger has apparently been Catholic since 1972.

[quote]The historian Yves Chiron, in the August issue of the monthly newsletter Aletheia, which he edits, reveals that Brother Roger, murdered 16 August 2005, had been converted to Catholicism since 1972. This fact was confirmed for him by Msgr. Raymond Séguy, former bishop of Autun (department of Saône-et-Loire), the diocese where Taizé is located.

-[url="http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0,36-809559,0.html"][u]Source[/u][/url]-[/quote]

As for Tony Blair, the Pope instituted the Code of Canon Law. I don't think you're in much of a position to lecture him on supposedly breaking it. Perhaps a little humility and deference to the discretion of the Bishop of Rome?

[Ash Wednesday]

I don't even know if it ever was confirmed that the pope actually gave Blair communion in the first place. I've heard conflicting reports (some claim he did, but others like Judie Brown on CNN, insist that he did not.) and given that it was a private audience perhaps only a select few actually know the facts and I have yet to hear any clarification on the matter from a direct source.

[veroni213]

[quote name='Dave' post='1052222' date='Aug 28 2006, 04:42 PM']
And besides, no priest may refuse Communion to anyone who goes up to receive unless it's a manifest public sinner.
[/quote]
[quote name='Norseman82' post='1052126' date='Aug 28 2006, 12:45 PM']
this was right in the middle of Monicagate.
[/quote]



All joking aside, Tony Blair is about as Catholic as British Prime Ministers get.

[quote]Tony Blair today is effectively a Roman Catholic, though he has not yet, [b]to our knowledge[/b], been formally received into the church. [url="http://politics.guardian.co.uk/bookshelf/story/0,9061,1314216,00.html"]Source[/url][/quote]

[Aloysius]

it is not true that a priest cannot refuse communion to anyone who is not a public manifest sinner.

a priest may refuse communion to anyone who he has knowledge should not be receiving it. If he knows they are not Catholic, he not only may refuse communion but it is his duty. Bishops can dispense from the norms in cases where the person has a manifest belief in the eucharist and desire to be Catholic (probably the Pope's reasoning behind giving Blaire communion, if he did). If he knows that they are in unrepentant mortal sin, he may also refuse communion. I think (I could be wrong) he can even do such if he knew they were in mortal sin because of a confession where they refused to absolve the penitent (i.e. my one friend went to confession, did not manifest a purpose of ammendment, and the priest told her not to present herself for holy communion ad that he would not give it to her).