The Red Cross Ambulance Incident

[stephen]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051377' date='Aug 27 2006, 01:01 AM']
I'm sorry, but I see this as still avoiding the question.

You claimed to have "absolute certainity" that all the people were innocent civilians. Please provide this information. [/quote]

The women and children killed in the ambulance had no weapons and there were not even any claims made against them by the Israelis. Women and children are always assumed to be innocent and protected during war, except by the Israelis and "Catholics" such as yourself.

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051377' date='Aug 27 2006, 01:01 AM']As you told hot stuff, "you've made this claim without offering a shred of evidence in support."[/quote]

Yeah, that old game. Well you need to prove that you don't beat your wife, then. And have you proven that you didn't murder those people buried in your back yard? How can we know that your claims of innocence are true with absolute certainty?


[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051377' date='Aug 27 2006, 01:01 AM']I'm sad to say, but in today's times, women and children are not always civilians. Such as the war in Iraq where there were cases of women and children acting as suicide bombers.[/quote]

It's a tragedy that Israeli and US injustices have driven people who never behaved that way in the past to such despair, isn't it?

Nevertheless, this is a rare occurrence and in no way justifies killing women and children, which you appear to be attempting to do.

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051377' date='Aug 27 2006, 01:01 AM']Though, I don't think the name calling, direct attacks, and insults are necessary by anyone.
[/quote]

If this was just a political forum that might be true. But this is a Catholic forum and there are people here acting as Zionist propagandists under the guise of Catholics. That needs to be addressed directly for the sake of those who are being misled by such chicanery.

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1051419' date='Aug 27 2006, 01:37 AM']
So by totally avoiding the question, it leads me to believe that you acknowledge the fact that the "rocketing" of ambulances three weeks ago was most likely faked. That the Iraelis had nothing to do with it. That Hezbollah has duped you.
Since you are only concerned about talking about 1996.
[/quote]

No. I have firmly established the fact that the Israelis attack ambulances, therefore it is not at all unreasonable to believe that the recent Israeli attacks on ambulances have not been completely fabricated as you disingenuously claim.

Edited August 27, 2006 by stephen

[Jaime]

[quote]No. I have firmly established the fact that the Israelis attack ambulances, therefore it is not at all unreasonable to believe that the recent Israeli attacks on ambulances have not been completely fabricated as you disingenuously claim.
[/quote]



This level of bs has been entertaining.

You've done nothing to address the article. You've shown yourself for what you are. All you have is name calling and an anti semitic attitude. Nothing intelligent share!


I was hoping for more but oh well!

[stephen]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1051431' date='Aug 27 2006, 01:51 AM']


You've done nothing to address the article. [/quote]

Sure I have. I've shown that it doesn't matter whether a missile made the hole in the roof or not.

And I'm not obligated to address your propaganda to begin with. What concerns me is Israeli war crimes.

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1051431' date='Aug 27 2006, 01:51 AM']You've shown yourself for what you are. All you have is name calling and an anti semitic attitude. Nothing intelligent share!

[/quote]

I've demonstrated conclusively that the Israelis attack ambulances filled with innocent women and children. If you believe that to be "anti-semitic," that's your problem.

Edited August 27, 2006 by stephen

[Anomaly]

[quote name='stephen' post='1051310' date='Aug 26 2006, 10:14 PM']
It is ignorance to stop ambulances at checkpoints in an emergency situation.
This is the fourth time you've made this claim without offering a shred of evidence in support.
It seems to me that holding up an ambulance until the wounded or pregnant person inside dies is more than scrutiny. You're making a false claim here.
That's the fifth time you've made that claim without offering a shred of evidence without support.

Of all the disingenuous Zionist war crimes apologists here on this Catholic web forum, I must give you credit for at least choosing an appropriate screename, Anomaly.
[/quote]It's been proven to you that Hezzbollay use ambulances, and the 'bulls eye' ambulance story and pics are lies.
[url="http://www.standwithus.com/idf_videos.asp"]http://www.standwithus.com/idf_videos.asp[/url]
[url="http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=23785"]http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=23785[/url]
[url="http://www.middleeastfacts.com/weblog/israel/israel-bombs-un-observation-post-being-used-as-a-terrorist-shield/"]http://www.middleeastfacts.com/weblog/isra...rrorist-shield/[/url]
[url="http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin_ambulances_for_terrorists.php3"]http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/...terrorists.php3[/url]
[url="http://volokh.com/posts/1154237903.shtml"]http://volokh.com/posts/1154237903.shtml[/url]

Just to provide a few...

Even Amnesty Internationaly condemns both Isreal and Hezzbollays of war crimes. Isreal for targeting civillian infrastructure, and Hezzbollay for the COWARDICE of hiding among civillians, effectively using them as human shields.

2 wrongs don't make a right, it makes 2 wrongs.

Face it Stevie. You are a hate monger who is working to justify your chosen hate and de-justify others. You foster the continuation of evil.

Edited August 27, 2006 by Anomaly

[CatholicCid]

Eh, I think it's pointless to continue this debate.

I do find it funny though that his 1 article is "conclusive"
While the multiple responses, articles, ect... we post is all false.

[stephen]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051592' date='Aug 27 2006, 01:50 PM']I do find it funny though that his 1 article is "conclusive"
While the multiple responses, articles, ect... we post is all false.
[/quote]

The video that you ignore which shows a missile striking an ambulance full of women and children and which then documents the wounded and dead women and children inside the ambulance is conclusive evidence. I assume that's why you ignore it.

[url="http://tyros.leb.net/qana/"]http://tyros.leb.net/qana/[/url]


[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051592' date='Aug 27 2006, 01:50 PM']
Eh, I think it's pointless to continue this debate.[/quote]

I think the thread itself is pretty pointless. "Israel's" aggression against the defenseless nation of Lebanon itself is an unjust and disproportionate criminal action. And most of the alleged Catholics around here are searching for ways to incriminate the victims. It's despicable and very pointless.

Edited August 27, 2006 by stephen

[stephen]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1051528' date='Aug 27 2006, 10:44 AM']
It's been proven to you that Hezzbollay use ambulances, and the 'bulls eye' ambulance story and pics are lies.
[url="http://www.standwithus.com/idf_videos.asp"]http://www.standwithus.com/idf_videos.asp[/url] [/quote]

This link shows video of a group of people attempting to escape attack by an Israeli helicopter by jumping into an ambulance. It claims the men are armed Hezbollah militants. The grainy black and white video shot from overhead from an IDF helicopter doesn't document this in any way I can tell. One must accept their claim on faith. I don't place any faith in the pathological liars of the IDF. All I see is a some people attempting to save their lives by fleeing an Israeli air assault by jumping in an ambulance.



[quote name='Anomaly' post='1051528' date='Aug 27 2006, 10:44 AM'][url="http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=23785"]http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=23785[/url][/quote]

No article comes up at this link. But I should say the magazine, "Front Page Magazine" run by a bunch of case hardened Zionists is about as "unbiased" as the IDF video you supplied above.


[quote name='Anomaly' post='1051528' date='Aug 27 2006, 10:44 AM'][url="http://www.middleeastfacts.com/weblog/israel/israel-bombs-un-observation-post-being-used-as-a-terrorist-shield/"]http://www.middleeastfacts.com/weblog/isra...rrorist-shield/[/url] [/quote]

First of all, there's nothing about ambulances here. It's another Zionist apologetics job for the bombing of a UN camp. The UN workers at that camp informed the Israelis 10 times prior to and during the bombing and the Israelis continued to bomb the camp into oblivion. If you'd like to pursue this, I'm all for it. But this has nothing to do with ambulances. You're struggling.




[quote name='Anomaly' post='1051528' date='Aug 27 2006, 10:44 AM'][url="http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin_ambulances_for_terrorists.php3"]http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/...terrorists.php3[/url] [/quote]

I love your sources ... The Jewish World Review and that Zionist shill Michelle Malkin, the IDF and Front Page Magazine. All very "unbiased."

In any case, this piece of propaganda shows a seemingly incriminating picture of a man carrying a gun getting into a UN ambulance. If they showed the video that the frame was taken from you'd see that the men were fleeing from an Israeli attack and one of them was wounded. Hardly incriminating. Ambulances are meant to get medical attention for the wounded, are they not?

Oh, and by the way, this picture was taken in the West Bank as admitted in the article itself, so the men in the picture are not Hezbollah.

next up ...



[url="http://volokh.com/posts/1154237903.shtml"]http://volokh.com/posts/1154237903.shtml[/url]

These stock photos show some Arab looking men with a large truck-mounted gun seemingly posing for a picture near a building. What does this prove? I could show pictures of heavily armed IDF soldiers in civilian areas of the Israeli state all day long. Would that provide justification for bombing apartment buildings full of people in "Israel"? Somehow, I believe that you would say not.

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1051528' date='Aug 27 2006, 10:44 AM']

Even Amnesty Internationaly condemns both Isreal and Hezzbollays of war crimes. Isreal for targeting civillian infrastructure, and Hezzbollay for the COWARDICE of hiding among civillians, effectively using them as human shields. [/quote]

Are the heavily armed Israeli soldiers that can be found on nearly every block in the Israeli state "cowardly hiding among civilians" and do they provide justification for bombing the civilian areas in which they are stationed? Somehow, I believe that you would say not. And btw, what does this have to do with ambulances?

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1051528' date='Aug 27 2006, 10:44 AM'] 2 wrongs don't make a right, it makes 2 wrongs.[/quote]

That's an interesting point which you seem to not understand yourself.

You see, I'm not attempting to justify anything wrong. I'm calling out against the Israelis' attacks on innocent people. You're the guy attempting to justify attacks on ambulances and other civilian targets.

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1051528' date='Aug 27 2006, 10:44 AM']Face it Stevie. You are a hate monger who is working to justify your chosen hate and de-justify others. You foster the continuation of evil.
[/quote]

Face it Anomaly, you're an apologist for Zionist war crimes.

Edited August 27, 2006 by stephen

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='stephen' post='1051653' date='Aug 27 2006, 01:44 PM']
The video that you ignore which shows a missile striking an ambulance full of women and children and which then documents the wounded and dead women and children inside the ambulance is conclusive evidence. I assume that's why you ignore it.

[color="#FF0000"]I've watched it numerous times... I've even corrected your messed up link to it once... :
And for the documented... ect part... It shows one second clip of someone... It does not document anything.
I would still doubt the legitamancy of the ambulance.
[/color]

[url="http://tyros.leb.net/qana/"]http://tyros.leb.net/qana/[/url]
I think the thread itself is pretty pointless. "Israel's" aggression against the defenseless nation of Lebanon itself is an unjust and disproportionate criminal action. And most of the alleged Catholics around here are searching for ways to incriminate the victims. It's despicable and very pointless.
[/quote]

Just wondering, but you are not Catholic right?


[quote]One must accept their claim on faith.[/quote]
Just as one must accept the driver of the vehicle from your article was not a militant on faith.

Edited August 27, 2006 by CatholicCid

[stephen]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051677' date='Aug 27 2006, 04:44 PM']
I've watched it numerous times... I've even corrected your messed up link to it once ... And for the documented... ect part... It shows one second clip of someone... It does not document anything.


[url="http://tyros.leb.net/qana/"]http://tyros.leb.net/qana/[/url] [/quote]

The video documents the dead children inside the ambulance. I'm sorry that identifying this fact is so challenging to you.

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051677' date='Aug 27 2006, 04:44 PM'] Just wondering, but you are not Catholic right?[/quote]

And what have you based this very unperceptive musing upon? Is it because I'm not a rabid supporter of Zionist aggression, like so many of the "Catholics" here?


[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051677' date='Aug 27 2006, 04:44 PM']Just as one must accept the driver of the vehicle from your article was not a militant on faith.
[/quote]

I see. So based upon the speculation that the driver of the vehicle [i]may have been[/i] a militant (and [i]all [/i] Arabs are suspect, really, aren't they?), then it's justified for the Israelis to shell the ambulance he's driving and kill 6 women and children inside it. Is that your point?

Let me explain something to you, "CatholicCid." Assuming the innocence of a person on faith is far more Christian than assuming their guilt on faith and then killing them and everyone else in their vicinity. People are presumed to be innocent until proven otherwise in the Christianized West.

But "Catholics" like yourself would like to bring us under the Talmudic system of double standards where only "Jews" receive the benefit of the doubt.

For the sake of the great Christians who founded the civilized West in justice, I will resist such efforts with every ounce of strength which God in His great mercy allows me.

Edited August 27, 2006 by stephen

[CatholicCid]

I see one body at the end of the clip.
Behind that body might be a man with a beard. I cannot tell. The quality is not very good. It is quite hard to identify anything.

I'm sorry, I'll rephrase my question. Would you care to say your religious affiliation?

Please do not make baseless attacks against me. I believe they are called "ad hominem" or something like that and against the forum rules.
They in no way help the debate and are just attempts to start a flame war.

Edited August 27, 2006 by CatholicCid

[stephen]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051713' date='Aug 27 2006, 07:05 PM']
I see one body at the end of the clip.
Behind that body might be a man with a beard. I cannot tell. The quality is not very good. It is quite hard to identify anything. [/quote]

For the love of God.

Go to this link:

[url="http://tyros.leb.net/qana/"]http://tyros.leb.net/qana/[/url]

Click on the video labeled "dead child in ambulance" which has a picture of a dead child in an ambulance right above it.

Better yet, forget that. It's apparently too challenging for you. Here are stills from the video:

[color="#CC0000"]Sorry, these images are way too graphic to post on a site with members as young as 13. -cmom[/color]
These are dead CHILDREN, killed by the Israelis as they fled for their lives in an ambulance from the 1996 Israeli "Grapes of Wrath" military aggression against Lebanon: a despicable crime which any person who considers themselves Catholic, nay, [i]human[/i], should be opposed to.


[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051713' date='Aug 27 2006, 07:05 PM'] I'm sorry, I'll rephrase my question. Would you care to say your religious affiliation?[/quote]

I'm Catholic, as I've clearly stated elsewhere on this site in response to other Zionist inquisitors.

Now, would you care to state what your doubts about my Catholic faith are based upon?

Edited August 28, 2006 by cmotherofpirl

[CatholicCid]

See, it helps to post the entire videos ect...

I suggest you watch the clip you originally posted to us.

[url="http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9604/13/israel.lebanon.pm/ambulnce.mov"]http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9604/13/israel.le...pm/ambulnce.mov[/url]

It's maybe a 30 second clip and has been what I have been discussing as it is all you posted of it.

Your lack of charity made me ponder what faith you might be.

[stephen]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051741' date='Aug 27 2006, 07:57 PM']
See, it helps to post the entire videos ect...

I suggest you watch the clip you originally posted to us.[/quote]

I posted the short CNN video once and the full length video three times once it became clear that I was dealing with obfuscators who were attempting to whitewash the Israeli killing of innocents. I stated very clearly that it was a different video which documented the children killed.

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051741' date='Aug 27 2006, 07:57 PM']Your lack of charity made me ponder what faith you might be.
[/quote]

What could be more "uncharitable" and "unCatholic" than outrage expressed at the killing of innocent people and those who attempt to whitewash it ...

I suppose if I were waving a six pointed star around and cheering on the Israelis as they "defend themselves" by killing civilians in the thousands, then I would be viewed as "charitable" and my "Catholic faith" would be percieved as unassailable.

Thanks for the insight.

Edited August 27, 2006 by stephen

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='stephen' post='1051753' date='Aug 27 2006, 06:21 PM']
I posted the short CNN video once and the full length video three times once it became clear that I was dealing with obfuscators who were attempting to whitewash the Israeli killing of innocents. I stated very clearly that it was a different video which documented the children killed.

[color="#FF0000"]I apologize, I did not see that link addressed to me. I just went though the past posts and found it. So sorry, but I've been debating off the short clip you originally posted.[/color]

What could be more "uncharitable" and "unCatholic" than outrage expressed at the killing of innocent people and those who attempt to whitewash it ...

I suppose if I were waving a six pointed star around and cheering on the Israelis as they "defend themselves" by killing civilians in the thousands, then I would be viewed as "charitable" and my "Catholic faith" would be percieved as unassailable.

Thanks for the insight.
[/quote]

See, this still is uncharitable. Baseless insults at my expense.

Edited August 28, 2006 by CatholicCid

[stephen]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1051760' date='Aug 27 2006, 08:49 PM']
See, this still is uncharitable. Baseless insults at my expense.
[/quote]


In light of the fact that children are being killed by the Israelis with US supplied military weaponry--a fact which you and others have been attempting to whitewash at great length--your response is to paint [i]yourself[/i] the victim. No comment on the dead children.

Thanks again for the insight.

Edited August 28, 2006 by stephen