South Dakota Execution

[catholicinsd]

Elijah Page is my brother. He your bother, also. How can you all call for his blood?

You all would have been the ones calling on Pilate in order Christ's death.

[Aloysius]

Again: stop with the emotional appeals and attempt to excercise human reason. I have not called for anyone's blood.

Christ Himself accepted death. It seems you would have been with Peter drawing your sword to defend Him though He didn't want to be defended (if He had He would have called upon legions of angels to defend Him). Christ knew that for the sins of humanity He had to die.

Elijah knows that for his own sins against humanity he must die. He accepts it, why can't you?

Before you reply: stop. think. do not lash out emotionally. do not call us evil bloodthirsty hippocrites. choose your words, order them in a coherent logical fashion.

[styx chyx]

Just want to say that this is a really awesome thread, some really strong arguments coming through which, personally, I really like to read.

However as (an Australian) someone who has never in any way experienced ANYTHING to do with the death penalty (except of course for knowing of its existence in our past and other countries far and wide), I am personally against its use. I can't help but wonder if this man has accepted the death penalty because he sees a struggle against it as fruitless (perhaps due to his past, struggling against the inevitable?), he is tired of fighting in general, or if perhaps he has accepted his actions as wrong, and wants to see justice done. Personally, I think that it would be much more comendable and beneficial to see this man separated from society, and taught God's word in safety (ie PRISON!!!). If he truly accepts God into his heart, he will truly suffer the pain he has brought on the victim's family, and on God, will learn, repent, understand, eventually forgive himself and give the family a chance to forgive him also. If he doesn't learn the word of God, then he will do so rather quickly when God decides his time on Earth is at an end.

Now, I am NOT saying that he should then be realeased into society, but I feel that a world which encourages personal growth, mercy and forgiveness is far preferable to one which supports 'justice' or possibly revenge?

[bball33]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1052775' date='Aug 29 2006, 11:33 AM']
Again: stop with the emotional appeals and attempt to excercise human reason. I have not called for anyone's blood.

Christ Himself accepted death. It seems you would have been with Peter drawing your sword to defend Him though He didn't want to be defended (if He had He would have called upon legions of angels to defend Him). Christ knew that for the sins of humanity He had to die.

Elijah knows that for his own sins against humanity he must die. He accepts it, why can't you?

Before you reply: stop. think. do not lash out emotionally. do not call us evil bloodthirsty hippocrites. choose your words, order them in a coherent logical fashion.
[/quote]

I would like to point out that the Church, according to the Catechism, condemns the use of the dealth penalty when other means may be used. He must be a danger to society that cannot be contained in other ways. I don't necc. agree with catholicinsd's arguments, but he is right-we should never take the life of another, and if someone does, God is the judge, not us. In my opinion, he should live.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1052764' date='Aug 29 2006, 12:25 PM']
Elijah Page is my brother. He your bother, also. How can you all call for his blood?

You all would have been the ones calling on Pilate in order Christ's death.
[/quote]

Aren't you being a bit ridiculous at this point? Being insulting doesn't help your argument.
Actions have real consequences, and the real consequence of cold-blooded murder is that you forfeit your own right to existance. The state has the right to execute murderers, always has and the Church has always agreed with it.
The Church can and should always call for justice tempered with mercy, but it is the right of the state to administer justice.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1052764' date='Aug 29 2006, 10:25 AM']
Elijah Page is my brother. He your bother, also. How can you all call for his blood?

You all would have been the ones calling on Pilate in order Christ's death.
[/quote]No. We would have been the ones calling for Barabas' death for murder.

[catholicinsd]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1052775' date='Aug 29 2006, 11:33 AM']

Elijah knows that for his own sins against humanity he must die. He accepts it, why can't you?

[/quote]

He is accepting it only because the State has broken him severly, and caused him to be suicidal.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1052854' date='Aug 29 2006, 01:35 PM']
He is accepting it only because the State has broken him severly, and caused him to be suicidal.
[/quote]
says you...

[Aloysius]

[quote name='michaelismycn' post='1052801' date='Aug 29 2006, 01:11 PM']
I would like to point out that the Church, according to the Catechism, condemns the use of the dealth penalty when other means may be used. He must be a danger to society that cannot be contained in other ways. I don't necc. agree with catholicinsd's arguments, but he is right-we should never take the life of another, and if someone does, God is the judge, not us. In my opinion, he should live.
[/quote]
my entire argument is based upon the catechism. if you didn't see that, go back and re-read my posts. the Catechsim clearly posits it as a lesser good to use the death penalty when non-lethal means are sufficient and exorts states to do the greater good. it doesn't condemn it as murder; it is never murder when the person is guilty of murder.

none of us know Elijah's motivations for not appealing. but as Catholics we should hope that his reasons are an acceptance of what we, as Catholics, see as true justice for his crime so that he acheives the virtue of expiation in his acceptance of death.

Elijah became suicidal the same day he became homicidal: HOMICIDE IS SUICIDE in the Christian tradition and in Christian doctrine. He has already killed himself, letting him live is the action which is over and above what he deserves. it is letting him live which would satisfy the greater good. but letting him die would satisfy the regular good, the ordinary good, ordinary justice. it cannot be considered an evil in any way, shape, or form. the only thing that can be considered evil is the decision by the state against the greater good. if the lesser good is done, it is still a good; the decision not to do the greater good was a wrong decision.

[catholicinsd]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1052892' date='Aug 29 2006, 02:22 PM']


Elijah became suicidal the same day he became homicidal: HOMICIDE IS SUICIDE in the Christian tradition and in Christian doctrine.
[/quote]

Show me that doctrine.

PS Dotrines don't regulate morals.

[Aloysius]

what regulates morals then?

"Whosoever sheddeth a man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed" -Genesis

the Church has consistently taken that to mean that if one murders another man, in that act of murder they give up their own right to live as well. that is what it meant to the people who wrote the scriptures, that is what it has meant to the people who have read the scriptures in the Jewish and Christian ages for so many millenia, and that is what God himself teaches. therefore it is doctrine, it is moral law.

tell me, do your emotions regulate your morals? if not, what does regulate your morals?

[catholicinsd]

God, the Father of us all, regulates morals

[ardillacid]

and how do we get these morals if not through the bible and catechism?

[catholicinsd]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1052999' date='Aug 29 2006, 04:25 PM']
and how do we get these morals if not through the bible and catechism?
[/quote]

Well, if God wanted Eli dead, He'd do something about it.

[homeschoolmom]

With that attitude we don't have to do anything. If God wants an end to abortion, He'll do something.