Do Budge and Eutychus agree on theology?

[jswranch]

Besides anti-Catholicism, do they share all the same beliefs about morality, the Trinity, salvation, scriptural beliefs, effects of baptism, end of times, salvation requirments, predstination?

Do they care?

If we were to stop being Catholic and join one of their church's, which one would we pick?

[Eutychus]

?

I believe she said she was a Baptist, I'm not. However, unlike the differences that Catholics like to "claim" non-Catholics have, it has been my personal experience { I get around for various time and project reasons } that 90% agreement is the norm for most normal Christians. Where we tend to disagree is on the non-essentials, like eschatological timings, spiritual gifts, and the like, on the biggies the differences are almost inconsequential

I also find it ludicrous that the RC poster seems to hint that ALL Catholics believe what Rome teaches. There is just as wide a range of beliefs inside the Catholic Church as anywhere else. On PAPER you might have a claim to uniformity of belief, but in REALITY, there is more outright hostility and divergent beliefs betwen a militant Opus Dei Catholic, and a Minnesota Far Left liberal Catholic. Not to mention the VAST differences between other countries and here and there.

[quote]If we were to stop being Catholic and join one of their church's, which one would we pick?[/quote]

I have been asked that seriously from time to time. My suggestion is always the same. STAY Catholic, keep going to Masses. But a few times a month, check out churches that seem interesting in your area. If you can, find out if they have a Wednesday night program, that is where the fun stuff happens, like courses, etc. Sniff around, see what the people are like, how they conduct themselves, the state of the facilities, pastorate, etc. Then stay Catholic. If the HS wants you out, He will lead you, if not, all you have done is learned a few things, and made some new friends.

Edited August 23, 2006 by Eutychus

[jswranch]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1048683' date='Aug 23 2006, 01:41 AM']
I also find it ludicrous that the RC poster seems to hint that ALL Catholics believe what Rome teaches. There is just as wide a range of beliefs inside the Catholic Church as anywhere else. [/quote] YOu have some truth here. There is papal decrees, Catechisms, councils on one side and dissent/ignorance/disobediance on the other. The rest of the differences seem to be tastes and rites. For these I pick wherever the holy spirit/conscience leads.

[quote]STAY Catholic, keep going to Masses. But a few times a month, check out churches that seem interesting in your area. If you can, find out if they have a Wednesday night program, that is where the fun stuff happens, like courses, etc. Sniff around, see what the people are like, how they conduct themselves, the state of the facilities, pastorate, etc. Then stay Catholic. If the HS wants you out, He will lead you, if not, all you have done is learned a few things, and made some new friends.[/quote]
I would agree we should share ideas. Also, we must be willing to follow the HS no matter what the call.

[Eutychus]

As everyone knows, doors let some in, others out.

The goal is a relationship with Jesus, not the physical ingested kind, but the spiritual love kind.

Let God direct you where He wants you. For some, that will be a local parish, for others, a local vibrant church. AND, if either goes "bad" on you, for goodness sake, get OUT, it is your salvation here...not loyalty to the sign over the front door that counts.

[curtins]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1048683' date='Aug 23 2006, 03:41 AM']


I also find it ludicrous that the RC poster seems to hint that ALL Catholics believe what Rome teaches. There is just as wide a range of beliefs inside the Catholic Church as anywhere else. On PAPER you might have a claim to uniformity of belief, but in REALITY, there is more outright hostility and divergent beliefs betwen a militant Opus Dei Catholic, and a Minnesota Far Left liberal Catholic. Not to mention the VAST differences between other countries and here and there.
I have been asked that seriously from time to time. My suggestion is always the same. STAY Catholic, keep going to Masses. But a few times a month, check out churches that seem interesting in your area. If you can, find out if they have a Wednesday night program, that is where the fun stuff happens, like courses, etc. Sniff around, see what the people are like, how they conduct themselves, the state of the facilities, pastorate, etc. Then stay Catholic. If the HS wants you out, He will lead you, if not, all you have done is learned a few things, and made some new friends.
[/quote]

Anyone who does not submit to all Roman Catholic Doctrine is a Catholic in name only. There are no sects of Catholocism. Theres ONE Catholic church. People can claim to be part of it yet hold different opinions when it comes to certain dogmas, but they're not really Catholic then.

And theres that mentality- pick your church based on if its people are nice. ZERO theological input. Thats what I call scary. Heck why not join the church of satan if its people are nice.

[Jaime]

The question is flawed because it assumes there is a theology for them to have. While Budge and Eutychus may have a love for God, that does not mean they have a theology. I haven't seen any theological signs from either.

[Theoketos]

Theological Relativism is contrary to the Truth and sliding scale into disbelief.

[thessalonian]

They agree on religion because their religion is the Church of anti-catholicism.

By the way what's non-essential? Do your lists on what is and isn't a non-essiential coincide? I doudt it. Everything that is neccessary for salvation is contained in the Bible but some of it isn't neccessary is what you are telling us.

As far as unity in the Catholic Church. There are most definitely many dissenters. But it never ceases to amaze me how I can run in to so many Catholics on the internet that I agree completely with. I bet you two can't find 1 person that you agree completely with. The unity in your religions does not compare. The communion you have with one another does not compare.

Edited August 23, 2006 by thessalonian

[Eutychus]

[quote]Anyone who does not submit to all Roman Catholic Doctrine is a Catholic in name only. There are no sects of Catholocism. Theres ONE Catholic church. [/quote]

Nice BUMPER STICKER SLOGAN....

But everyone knows that isn't so, except maybe you.

[quote]


Who is a Roman Catholic?

Dan S

Strangely, the answer to this question has proven difficult for non-Catholics and Catholics alike. Kenneth R. Samples offers an explanation.

Erroneous classifications of Catholicism frequently fail to grasp the significant diversity within the [Roman] church. While the church's unity is of central importance, Catholicism possesses incredible diversity -- Catholics are anything but monolithic in their beliefs. This diversity is illustrated by the six major theological types of Catholics :

[b] * ULTRATRADITIONALIST
* TRADITIONALIST
* LIBERAL
* CHARISMATIC / EVANGELICAL
* CULTURAL
* POPULAR FOLK (1) [/b]

[size=4][color="#990000"]In addition, there exists numerous subgroups.[/color] [/size] The POSTMODERNIST Catholic (explained below) is a rapidly growing phenomena.

[b][u]The average Catholic is typically unaware of their own denominational diversity. Each brand of Catholic mentioned above seeks to define themselves as normative and attempts to portray other groups as not being truly Catholic. While Catholics often ridicule non-Catholics for denominational division, they are hypocritically silent and do their best to hide the frequent 'family spats', even wars going on between the various types of Catholics. Make no mistake, Catholics are seriously DIVIDED no matter what image they project to the outside world. [/u] [/b] Samples continues:

The following varieties of contemporary Catholics should not be understood as exact classifications. Not every Catholic fits neatly into one particular type -- there is significant overlapping.

In Europe and North America, the overwhelming majority of Catholics are an "overlap" of the Liberal and Cultural varieties. The apologetic "apostolate" groups amongst the Traditionalists represent an intellectual, vocal minority within a minority. An explanation of these varieties is given below.[/quote]

[url="http://withchrist.org/catholic.htm"]http://withchrist.org/catholic.htm[/url]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1048734' date='Aug 23 2006, 04:57 AM']
The question is flawed because it assumes there is a theology for them to have. While Budge and Eutychus may have a love for God, that does not mean they have a theology. I haven't seen any theological signs from either.
[/quote]

You mean you CANNOT see, rather than HAVE NOT seen.

There is quite the difference.

Edited August 23, 2006 by Eutychus

[Jaime]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1048784' date='Aug 23 2006, 08:49 AM']

You mean you CANNOT see, rather than HAVE NOT seen.

There is quite the difference.
[/quote]


No I mean there is no theology there. Just because you believe in something does not make it a theology. And as far as what you believe, you've demonstrated what you don't believe. But you've given very little information on what you do believe.

There is quite the difference

[Eutychus]

[quote]But you've given very little information on what you do believe. [/quote]

To date, no one has seemed to care, for the questions have been few, and far between.

I usually do NOT answer questions that are unasked.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1048812' date='Aug 23 2006, 09:49 AM']
To date, no one has seemed to care, for the questions have been few, and far between.

I usually do NOT answer questions that are unasked.
[/quote]


Consider it asked then

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1048790' date='Aug 23 2006, 10:01 AM']No I mean there is no theology there. Just because you believe in something does not make it a theology. And as far as what you believe, you've demonstrated what you don't believe. But you've given very little information on what you do believe.

There is quite the difference[/quote]Aside from the fact that Catholics are to blame for all the problems in the world, there's really nothing solid that holds these two together. Presumably, since Eutychus has been furtive about proclaiming his "True" version of Christianity that will save us poor Catholics, Budge is probably in no position to make a judgment as to whether Eutychus's beliefs conform with what she understands as her own personal truth as an independent Baptist.

As a little example of my own experiences in protestantism, I've attended some of their Bible studies. These experiences shed some light onto how they handle "theology." I'd classify them into two categories: sect-specific and inter-denominational (aka non-denom).

First, the protestant Bible studies that are sect-specific generally hold extremely narrow interpretations of the Scriptures. In some of the studies geared for/by ex-Catholics, they were best described as scripted polemical attacks on Catholic teachings with their own pecular beliefs. If you didn't turn off your brain and follow their scripted "study" so that you came to the conclusions they wanted, you would be marginalized until you were shamed into silence.

Second, there are the inter-denomination/non-denominational Bible Studies. Because it was billed as inter-denominational, inter-sect controversies could be discussed (e.g. infant baptism); but the group could not come to a consensus on any of them. The Catholic Church's teaching would generally not be accepted knowingly, though participants could be open to the Scriptural basis for Church teachings, as long as the name "Catholic" was not mentioned.

In the first case (i.e. sect-specific), you've got a narrow theology, directed by pastor Joe-Bob's whims. In the second, you've got the warm-fuzzy veil of non-denom unity. Its theology embraces a broad segment of believers, but has no theological depth.

With the protestant mindset in place, its only natural to see them attempt to force divisions on Catholicism, when individual believers don't accept this or that teaching of the Church. Of course, this is not how protestant sects are identified. No one would believe that a Methodist laymen in the back of the church constitutes a new church because he doesn't agree with all that Methodism entails.

Just as the Catholic Church has a set of beliefs, most protestant sects--right down to the local independent or non-denom pastor--find it necessary to have a set of minimum beliefs for church membership. Anyone can visit their websites or their churches to verify this. Of course, some are desperate enough to attract believers that they will lower the bar so far that anyone could consider himself a faithful member of their particular sect.

Low standards of belief are not what the Gospel is all about.

[Eutychus]

[quote] First, the protestant Bible studies that are sect-specific generally hold extremely narrow interpretations of the Scriptures. In some of the studies geared for/by ex-Catholics, they were best described as scripted polemical attacks on Catholic teachings with their own pecular beliefs. If you didn't turn off your brain and follow their scripted "study" so that you came to the conclusions they wanted, you would be marginalized until you were shamed into silence.[/quote]

Uh, you just gave yourself away as a faker there. The BIGGEST bible study groups in the nation, are NON DENOMINATIONAL.

I attend one, COMMUNITY BIBLE STUDY, that has around 50 going, and I believe we come from 10 different churches, with two Roman Catholics too. 528 adult classes around the country, plus 71 classes for teens, and many more around the world.

[img]http://www.communitybiblestudy.org/imagesbanner_2.gif[/img]

[url="http://www.communitybiblestudy.org/"]http://www.communitybiblestudy.org/[/url]

It was interesting however, to see how little you know, your built in bias, and unbelievable ignorance of normal Christian practice.

[Mateo el Feo]

Or maybe you gave yourself away as someone who didn't read the paragraph immediately following what you quoted?

PS--Eutychus, maybe I could use this as an opportunity to request that you use a little more restraint before you decide to begin an uncharitable attack against other posters here. Calling me names is actually going to hurt your own walk with Christ more than it hurts me emotionally.

Edited August 23, 2006 by Mateo el Feo