photosynthesis Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 if we were 100% evil, why would God want to restore our communion with Him? I mean...I agree with you that sin has caused a separation between God and Man....but if humans can't do anything right, then what's the use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 because He loves us. And as you look at things like... why was Abraham chosen to start the race of Israel - because God choose him (not based on anything about Abraham), or things like Joseph was chosen over Esau before they were out of the womb. That is love - that would open our eyes to the truth, so we could come to know Him. It is mercy the world exists as it is today - it is grace anyone is getting saved. Whats the use? Paul writes that preaching is the appointed tool of God to spread the gospel - and where the gospel is spread there Christ will work. There of course have been some peoples and groups who have responded to the general revelation of the world and prayed to God and 'coincidentally' missionaries ran into their tribe, or a pilot crashed on their island who was christian, or other stuff - but preaching the gospel message is the appointed method. So it is a privilege for us today to spread the gospel - not so we can save people, so God can save people. Spurgeon put it this way "Spreading the gospel is not a burden, it is a privilege" (something like that at least) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 i think it is catholic teachinng that the accepted grace of God is the only thing that allows us to do any positive good, even opening ourselves to recieve more grace requires grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 do you thank God that you were smart enough to choose Him when you pray? what do you say? No, I thank Him for placing me in a very devout family, with a rich history of Faith, cuz I am such a dummy, I would be one of those jack-chick types, were it not for the proper formation with which I was blessed by my parents and many a good priest, nun, and layman, as well as the graces received through the Sacraments. pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 well, of course God is gracious and loving and all... but He doesn't have to be. I guess that's what it means to be...you know....gracious. I guess I always wonder why God would do something like that if He didn't have to. oh yeah...uh...indulgences... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 No, I thank Him for placing me in a very devout family, with a rich history of Faith, cuz I am such a dummy, I would be one of those jack-chick types, were it not for the proper formation with which I was blessed by my parents and many a good priest, nun, and layman, as well as the graces received through the Sacraments. amen, sister! if it weren't for the fact that God put certain people in my life who made me think about my relationship with Him, I would still be handing out condoms all around campus and writing pro choice articles in the college newspaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Amazing, isn't it? Our God IS an amesome God. Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickRitaMichael Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 3 things i would like to say: one, i don't think that you can receive indulgences w/o seeking them and not even everyone who seeks them will receive them. i heard something about some saint (like how i am being specific here?) who was saying mass and everyone was saying the prayer for an indulgence but the saint saw the holy spirit descend and give the indulgence to himself and this old lady and not to anyone else in the church. so i guess it depends on the state of your heart, too, which God only knows but it can't hurt to try two, reading the Bible can help us to know God more so even if you don't get an indulgence from it, you can still learn from it and benefit from it. three, i don't think that the totally depraved thing is true. only some people believe that, actually and not even all protestants believe that (circle, are you a calvinist?). the depravity thing would mean that since it is all up to God anyway, God chose certain people to go to heaven and certain people to go to hell, meaning He loved some people more and some people less and that is not Biblical. and then how would the idea of grace as a gift work? no i don't believe total depravity is Biblical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 yeah...don't you have to be in a state of grace to recieve an indulgence? and while Protestants can and do experience grace, to be in a state of grace requires going to confession...technically speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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