Bruce S Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 (edited) Hey, I don't speak Greek, so I provide the link to go see. Let the greeks speak for themselves... OOOPHAH! Zorba The Greek For Beginning Bible Students Edited January 8, 2004 by Bruce S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Why must I be a scholar to be assured that I'm following Christ correctly? I dunno, it's Catholics that have such a big huddub about priests. Us Protestants love elders - they have nothing to do with salvation however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I dunno, it's Catholics that have such a big huddub about priests. Us Protestants love elders - they have nothing to do with salvation however. Elders are a wonderful tradition, empowering LAITY, for the elders normally, have the right to hire and fire clergy. And most of the time, they control the pursestrings of the congregation too. Sort of like a Representative Democracy, or a Repulic form of government, classical style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I grant you that the CROWD marveled at MAN having such powers, that is completely accurate. However, where is implied that this is what Jesus did that day? It was NOT "men" [plural] that healed, NOR forgave sin, it was Jesus. So the crowd and it's thinking isn't material here, for the "plural...Men" were NOT involved. So what? Jesus said that power was given to men. He didn't say it was just given to Him. It wasn't until Jesus breathed on the apostles after His Resurrection that they truly received that power, though. That's why you have to take Bible passages in light of other passages rather than as stand-alones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Elders are a wonderful tradition, empowering LAITY, for the elders normally, have the right to hire and fire clergy. Bruce, thats the point, that after ordination elders cease to be soley laity. They are given authority, responsibility and a terrible accounting. This is the belief and docrine of the reformers and many protestants today. That is why whatever way you translate the word, it is much more than simple people like you and I. peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 If a person didn't believe in indulgences, why would they want to recieve one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 If a person didn't believe in indulgences, why would they want to recieve one? touche! :duel: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 it totally goes against the idea that God wants to give us gifts, but we can't recieve them until we've requested them. It's the same with indulgences...God's respects human nature and free will, and he wouldn't force salvation upon us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 God's respects human nature and free will, and he wouldn't force salvation upon us. where do you get that idea from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 well, God gives us a choice...we can choose God's gifts, or we can reject them. you know, that basic seeker-oriented theology. of course, the idea of human salvation is a lot more complex than that, but the Catechism just isn't that user-friendly. indulgences are gifts from God...but you can choose to accept or reject them...if you don't believe in indulgences, you're basically saying "sorry God, no indulgences please." so I wouldn't see why an indulgence would be granted, even if you read the Bible for 30 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 do you thank God that you were smart enough to choose Him when you pray? what do you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 we choose correctly by the Grace of God, but it is still our choice. the same amount of grace is extended to everyone and if we accept the grace we may choose Him if we reject it we well, you know :devil: :seesaw: we be like this. the grace of God allows us to choose the kewl angel side, and persevere in it. we may reject the grace of God. as long as we don't reject it, we receive it. while, of our own power we cannot come to choose God, by our own power we CAN come to choose evil. and THAT is in line with Scripture. what's my soteriological stance now? :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 (edited) Do we choose evil - or are we deprave to begin with. Check out Romans 5:10 and what it speaks of unbelievers as. Edited January 9, 2004 by Circle_Master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I thank God for giving me the grace necessary to say "yes" to Him and I pray that others might be blessed as well. The problem with pop theology is that it oversimplifies the not-so-simple truth about salvation. We have a choice, but sometimes pop theology forgets that God must prepare our hearts to make the choice that God calls us to make. That's what Confirmation is all about--saying "yes" to the Lord and rejecting Satan, and God rewards that choice with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. We are SO not talking about indulgences anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I thank God for giving me the grace necessary to say "yes" to Him and I pray that others might be blessed as well. The problem with pop theology is that it oversimplifies the not-so-simple truth about salvation. We have a choice, but sometimes pop theology forgets that God must prepare our hearts to make the choice that God calls us to make. That's what Confirmation is all about--saying "yes" to the Lord and rejecting Satan, and God rewards that choice with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. We are SO not talking about indulgences anymore. exactly - God must prepare out hearts. I just take it to the next logical step and say it is 'impossible' for us to accept Christ on our own. Sin is too strong - we are too corrupt. Which is why we are called 'hostile' to God, and 'enemies' of God, and can do 'no' good work. If we can do no good work - there must not be any good in us. But - whatever indulgences hm... interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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