Vatican Billions

[Budge]

So Cortez is now your poster boy for Catholic goodness?

Thats really getting desperate...

The guy who pretended he was QUETZALCOATL to win battles?

[img]http://www.crystalinks.com/quetzal.gif[/img]

They put a plumed serpent QUETZALCOATL on the front of the Our Lady of Angels cathedral Bronze doors.

Catholicism has even picked up Aztec teachings..

what do you think all that sacred heart stuff comes from?

[Justified Saint]

You see, whatever happened to the "vatican billions"? You just can't keep these guys on topic and there is a reason for that.

[Aloysius]

Cortez isn't a poster boy of a good Catholic, but the effects of his conquering were an end to brutal pagan practices such as the sacrifice of babies.

So yeah, the Vatican Billions... those billions that are shipped all over the world to help the sick and needy? Yeah, that's the ones. I think we should hear you say: "Great job Catholic Church, even though I disagree with you doctrinally it is great that you are doing what our Lord commanded and feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, giving drink to the thirsty, taking care of the sick, et cetera"

The majority of artwork and temporal treasures in the Church were donated. It's all historically recorded.

The poor often are the first ones to want the churches to be full of gold and art and valuable things. They want to honor Christ with the very best.

Now, that solid gold altar could be melted down and sold and the people in that village could be fed well for a month or a year, but none of them would reach any level of comfort or luxury just from the selling up and dividing of those treasures. But every time they come to mass they get to experience their status as a kingdom of 'priests, prophets, and kings' in full royal surroundings. And it's not like they were ever deprived of help for the hungry or needy; they worked their own land for their own food and every sunday came to pay homage to the King of kings in a luxurious setting.

Please, attempt to audit our spendings... the only thing bad you'll find is how we're forced to pay an arm and a leg for the sins of less than 1% of our priests. Other than that all our funds are going towards helping the needy and offering our finest art and finest jewells to our Lord just as the woman who annointed Him with precious oil did.

[Norseman82]

Budge and Eutychus,

Youse two should read Luke 7:31-34 (assuming it has not been excised from the Cliff's Notes version of the Bible) and pay particular attention to verses 33-34:

"I mean that John the Baptizer came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He is mad!'. The Son of Man came and he both ate and drank, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collecters and sinners!'"

[Anthony]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1046614' date='Aug 20 2006, 08:31 AM']
Such a trust worthy site... I best believe everything it says

I like how the actual article is from "Chick Publications"
Vendetta against the Church? No...
[/quote]

No kidding. You know as well as we do, Budge, that Chick Publications exists to speak erroneously about the Catholic Church. Thanks for actually attempting to site your sources, but for future reference, use ones that are explicitly anti-Catholic. There is no credibility at all.

Also, the Church is not at fault, its the people. Don't confuse the actions of a few with the Church as a whole. Big no no!

[stbernardLT]

Wow, I know we don't have protestants talking about making money through religion. I think we've all seen TBN. I know pastors around here that are filthy rich (blessings from God) eventhough most of them set their own salary. They collect W2 from parishioners and make them feel horrible if they can't meet the tithe every month. While they flash, the fancy cars, houses, and jets. I've never read about one of the followers of Christ living so extravagant in the bible. Our priests make close to nothing and our pope lives in a little apartment, but we are rollin in the dough. It seems to me like someone has a beam stuck in their eye.

How about the "Mega Churches". Forty thousand people at one time. Now that is some cash mister Olstein. Forget about the fact that there is no possible way to make sure all the spiritual needs of 40,000 people are being met, let's past the tray (or should I say dump truck).

Our priests take a vow of poverty, what do your pators take, a vow of prosperity. Even if they have families to support, they are still abusing their leadership role.

[Eutychus]

[quote] [color="#660000"][b]Vatican Bank Top 10 Money Laundering Destination

29 November 2001

[u]According to one global source, the Vatican is the main destination for over $55 billion in illegal Italian money laundering [size=4]and the number 8 destination worldwide for laundered money[/size], ranked well ahead of such offshore havens as the Bahamas, Switzerland, and Liechtenstein[/u].

In a recent report by the London Telegraph and the Inside Fraud Bulletin, the Vatican was named as a top “cut out” country along with the offshore banking centers of Nauru, Macao, and Mauritius.

A “cut out” country is one whose banking secrecy makes it is all but impossible to trace laundered funds back to their source.[/b][/color]

The Vatican Bank is desperately resisting a legal action for an accounting of stolen World War II assets in a San Francisco Federal court (Alperin v. Vatican Bank) filed by Serb and Jewish Holocaust survivors. Contrary to the above reports, a declaration filed under penalty of perjury by the Vatican Bank’s attorney, Franzo Grande Stevens, states in part that the Vatican Bank’s “fundamental purpose is to promote pious acts” and that its depositors “are essentially limited to Vatican state employees, members of the Holy See, religious orders, and persons who deposit money destined, at least in part, for works of piety.” Stevens also declared to the court that the Pope controls the Vatican Bank and that bank records are not retained after ten years.

It seems that the Vatican Bank, a major illegal money laundering operation, is hiding behind the benign image of John Paul II. Given the Vatican Bank’s alleged involvement with Nazi loot and current links to organized crime, a reckoning cannot be far off. [/quote]

[url="http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/62/275.html"]http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/62/275.html[/url]

Edited August 21, 2006 by Eutychus

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1046923' date='Aug 20 2006, 07:49 PM']

[quote]According to one global source, the Vatican is the main destination for over $55 billion in illegal Italian money laundering and the number 8 destination worldwide for laundered money, ranked well ahead of such offshore havens as the Bahamas, Switzerland, and Liechtenstein.[/quote]

[/quote]

Ah, yes, that famous reliable "one global source".

[i]Global source, global source, come out come out wherever you are![/i]









Oh, and BTW....


[i]"Critiquing silken dresses and golden hockey sticks"?????[/i]

Edited August 21, 2006 by Norseman82

[Socrates]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1046681' date='Aug 20 2006, 10:35 AM']
You mean the Mexicans finally rebelled against the crimes that the Catholic Church had committed against Mexico since Cortez started cutting off the breasts of Indian women, and branding the men on their foreheads? Or the return of the expropriated and stolen wealth of the Catholic Church while the poor peasants literally were eating dirt?

Solid GOLD altars, fourty feet high, in a town were people walked barefoot....palaces for the Bishops, Cardinals, and extates, farms, hacienda's , and endless peasants to wait on them hand and foot? Coiuld THAT be the reason that they were shooting the priests and burning the monestaries?
[/quote]
This is pure baloney. I have done rather thorough research on Cortez and the conquest of Mexico, and this stuff about cutting off women's breasts and branding men is total propaganda nonsense. Cortez was not without his sins, but he was far from the cruel monster anti-Catholic propagandists have made him to be. What he did do was, against incredible odds, defeat one of the most satanic and murderous pagan regimes in known history, and begin the conversion of millions of Mexicans from paganism to Christ. The Aztecs practiced human sacrifice on a greater scale than any other known civilization, sacrificing approximately 50,000 persons a year to their demonic bloodthirsty "gods." The victims were lined up like cattle to the slaughter, to the top of the pyramids where the pagan priests would cut their hearts out from their chests.
This is the evil which Cortex and his men were faced with, and defeated.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice_in_Aztec_culture"](Wikipedia article here.)[/url]
([url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0931888123/sr=1-8/qid=1156129684/ref=sr_1_8/102-4862760-6096952?ie=UTF8&s=books"]good book on the topic here[/url])

It is ironic, that our "Bible Christian" friends here decry the defeat of this evil, and while constantly accusing the Catholic Church of "paganism," they express no outrage at this example of paganism at its most blatantly demonic, choosing rather to condemn those who would convert them to Christ.

And Cortez' victory would not have been possible without the aid of many natives who were happy to ally with the Spanish against their Aztec oppressors, who would take from them a tribute of prisoners for human sacrifice.

Learn the facts of history, rather than simply spouting off anti-Catholic garbage.

(And that altar's guilded, btw, not solid gold. And your ignorance of the facts of the Mexican revolution is pathetic. It was the communist government, not the common people, which was responsible for the violence against the Catholic Church. Many continued to practice their Catholic Faith despite government persecution, many priests risking all and even suffering martyrdom at the hands of the communist government. Again, ironic that the bile of these fundies is always directed towards the Catholics, while real pagans and communists are treated sympathetically in comparison!)

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1046734' date='Aug 20 2006, 12:31 PM']
Cortez isn't a poster boy of a good Catholic, but the effects of his conquering were an end to brutal pagan practices such as the sacrifice of babies.

So yeah, the Vatican Billions... those billions that are shipped all over the world to help the sick and needy? Yeah, that's the ones. I think we should hear you say: "Great job Catholic Church, even though I disagree with you doctrinally it is great that you are doing what our Lord commanded and feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, giving drink to the thirsty, taking care of the sick, et cetera"

The majority of artwork and temporal treasures in the Church were donated. It's all historically recorded.

The poor often are the first ones to want the churches to be full of gold and art and valuable things. They want to honor Christ with the very best.

Now, that solid gold altar could be melted down and sold and the people in that village could be fed well for a month or a year, but none of them would reach any level of comfort or luxury just from the selling up and dividing of those treasures. But every time they come to mass they get to experience their status as a kingdom of 'priests, prophets, and kings' in full royal surroundings. And it's not like they were ever deprived of help for the hungry or needy; they worked their own land for their own food and every sunday came to pay homage to the King of kings in a luxurious setting.

Please, attempt to audit our spendings... the only thing bad you'll find is how we're forced to pay an arm and a leg for the sins of less than 1% of our priests. Other than that all our funds are going towards helping the needy and offering our finest art and finest jewells to our Lord just as the woman who annointed Him with precious oil did.
[/quote]

I'd just like to add to this that additionally the number of people employed throught history needs to be taken into account. Someone had to build those Churches and maintain them, and those people would be paid. Now, which is better, to give people some money, and when that runs out they have no more and feel a loss of worth for not having contributed anything in their matinence, or to create jobs for people so that they can feel like they're contributing to their own keeping and feel self-worth?

[God Conquers]

You have convinced me of the disgusting wealth of the Church!!!!

Even though we operate on a deficit yearly due to charitable works!

There are all those priceles works of art!

We must get rid of it right away!

Who wants to buy the Pieta!?

Who wants to buy the Sistene Chapel?!




.........



No one?


Priceless = no one wants nor can afford them.


ah well...

[curtins]

See you protestants know deep down that you've got it all wrong and so now you make asinine claims about the church and attack the church because its members arn't perfect and because its members are sinners. That by no means doctrinally justifies protestantism. What don't you get about that?

[Eutychus]

[quote]That by no means doctrinally [u]justifies protestantism. What don't you get about that? [/u][/quote]

I'm NOT a "Protestant"

Sorry. We can start there if you wish.

[Budge]

1. I am not a Protestant either. Only have used that term for distinction.

In fact most mainline Prot churches have become ecumenical with Rome.

2. When Prots abuse money and rip people off--TV Evangelists, Osteen, Benny Hinn, I do not make excuses for it. In fact just like the Vatican greed for money, the Prot building treasrues on earth is just as wrong. I have posted openly against false preachers [who are not Catholic] online.

3. The Vatican has every in with the World Trade Organization, owns endless stocks and bonds and in world history has made or broken economic systems of entire nations. One reason the Vatican is tied to the elites and fornicating like mad with kings, is the fact that a lot of their wealth is tied to the multi-national corporations of the world.

4. Catholic priests do not take a vow of poverty except brothers and monks in monasteries. Priests even in small rural towns, will have a house [rectory], housekeeper, food and all expenses paid including lavish vacations,and much more. They do not live the lifestyle even of those around them. I can say the priest here even living in a more economically depressed area, lives a lifestyle much higher up then most around him. Oh and the Pope lives in a little apartment? Give me a break...new cars, prada sunglasses, extensive world travel, 2 month vacation at a CASTLE, SERVANTS and lackeys to serve every whim, his own ARMY of bodyguards.....please!


5. speaking of Cortez and paganism, most of South America is still essentially pagan with even the Marian apparitions being linked to pagan temples and NAMES.

The Virgin of Guadalupe, is just an updated version of the pagan Aztec goddess Tonantzin.

[Aloysius]

1. wow, must be easy for you. just detach yourself from all of Christian history and every Christian Church so you're impervious to any of the same types of attacks you make on our Church. Brilliant.

Both of you come out of the protestant tradition, and thus are accurately labeled as existing within Protestantism. But whatever.

2. I condemn greediness done by any Christians in any denomination especially when they use Christianity towards their own greedy means. That does not mean I condemn the use of very valuable things in worshipping Christ (just as the woman who annointed Christ with expensive oils which Judas didn't like) or even the large amounts of lands and properties owned for the sake of doing good work and providing places of constant prayer.

3. We'd have to go through these historical incidents one by one. Certainly not every action of the Vatican has been good, it's run by sinners. As regards its need to have some wealth: without that wealth it couldn't do the vast number of charitable works it does throughout the world.

4. The general rule has always been (not saying it hasn't been abused, but it's been a general guideline) that priests live in the same conditions as their average parishiner. Missionaries live as well as the people in the places they go to. Now, oftentimes we'll have rich converts who donate large estates to bishops, sometimes priests, but for the most part the parish priest lives in the rectory connected to the parish and is paid according to the average income of their parishiners.

As a matter of fact, a very old tradition says that a rich roman convert donated his mansion to Peter himself; and a first century roman mansion has recently been excavated with indications of Christian worship and inscirptions referencing Peter.

5. Those who adhere to Santeria, yes. But the majority of Catholics in Latin America know the difference between the worship owed to God and honor owed to the Saints.