How Many Masses Does It take to Get out of Purgatory?

[Budge]

do you know how many it takes?

Even human judges have enough compassion to give a prisoner a more definitive sentence.

Interesting medieval facts...

[quote][u]Therefore, the only way a soul could have its suffering diminished and eventually released from Purgatory was for those remaining alive to offer prayers, Masses, alms and other good works to secure the soul’s relief and release from the punishments of Purgatory. [/u]A person could also improve their chances in Purgatory by providing "suffrage" for the souls already in Purgatory, and by offering special prayers, fasts, almsgiving, pilgrimages and other pious deeds during life for their own soul (Ozment, p.216).
[size=5]
A rich person could leave money to fund Masses to be said in their honor, Henry VII ordered 10,000 masses to be said for him at 6 pence apiece (Ozment, p.205), and others funded churches or chapels as payment in advance for their soul’s salvation (French, p. 401). People with means spent two year’s income on their burial and prayers for their soul after death (Richardson, p.13). However, such expensive bequests were beyond the reach of the common individual, so they formed into groups, or guilds, devoted to achieving salvation and relief from Purgatory through the collaborative group effort of a guild (Richardson, p. 30)[/size].[/quote]

[url="http://www.curiousfrau.com/Articles/ReligiousGuilds_in_England.htm"]LINK[/url]

I didnt know that about guilds...learn a new thing everyday....

[img]http://www.leisuregalleries.com/sahlinmass.jpg[/img]

Same goes on today...

[img]http://www.licf.net/graphics/UploadFile/1383/LICF_Mass_Card_Inside_Sample_.jpg[/img]

Interesting how the wealthy person has many more Masses being said for them then the poor. Not a fair system at all. But nothing in Catholicism is.

[url="https://www.kintera.org/site/apps/ka/sd/donor.asp?c=9dJHJLPwB&b=979173&en=pvJVL6PSJbJOIcP2KiIOKbMSJlL9LjO0KlLRIcNVKhLXKiPaE"]THEY TAKE MASTERCARD AND VISA[/url]

What a Racket!

[Eutychus]

My favorite one is how now they are OUTSOURCING your Puge-it-today Masses to INDIA for a better deal!

{ [color="#990000"] [size=4]is this getting out of Purge-It-Today on the cheap?[/size] [/color] }

[quote] Outsourcing Prayers



By Hema Nair

A few months ago, when British soccer player David Beckham (of "Bend It Like Beckham" fame) was involved in a tabloid scandal that threatened to disrupt his marriage, a concerned London-based fan decided to pay for a Catholic Mass that would help Mr. Beckham ease his way out of the troubled period.

Unusual? Maybe. But what was really surprising about the Mass was the fact that it was not performed in a local Catholic church or by a local priest. In fact, it was not even said in English. The Mass was said miles and time zones away, in a small Catholic church in the Thrissur district of Kerala, a lush, green state in southwestern India. And it was conducted in Malayalam, the local language of the state.

In March this year, when German racing car driver Michael Schumacher won the Australian Grand Prix, a jubilant German fan wanted a thanksgiving Mass said to celebrate the victory. It was a ceremony he never attended because it was held, again, thousands of miles away, in a country parish in Kerala.

Welcome to the world of outsourced prayers. From Orthodox Christians eager to have faraway Russian monks pray for their souls, to U.S. Hindus arranging for Indian temple rituals without leaving home, believers are finding long-distance ways to fulfill their worship needs.

[u]One example of this is the outsourcing of Catholic Masses to India. Historically, devout Catholics have made donations, usually of a specified sum, for an entire Mass to be said for a particular intention. A parishioner might request the worship service in memory of a departed one, to pray for a sick friend, or in thanksgiving for a favorable outcome.

Currently, requests for such Masses are being collected by priests in European, Canadian and American churches and then communicated through mail, traveling clergy or, increasingly, by e-mail to the numerous churches in the crowded urban streets and emerald paddy fields of Kerala.[/u]

Why Kerala? Nearly 23 percent of the state's 30 million total residents are Christians, most of them Catholics, making it one of the densest concentrations of Catholics in India. And one of the largest church organizations in Kerala, the Syro-Malabar church, is rich in priests. It's contributed over 60 percent of India's missionary priests, in spite of forming only 20 percent of the country's total Catholic population.

This concentration of priests is what drives the requests for Masses from overseas, where the shortage of European and American priests has become acute. In the U.S., the lack of priests means there's often a long wait for a special Mass dedicated to a single intention. [/quote]

[url="http://www.beliefnet.com/story/150/story_15041_1.html"]http://www.beliefnet.com/story/150/story_15041_1.html[/url]

Edited August 20, 2006 by Eutychus

[XIX]

First of all, your greatest consolation at death will be the Masses that you has heard, not the ones that others have heard for you. I don't mean to diminish the power of others praying for a dead or living person's soul, but it has been said in apparations and such that one Mass heard during your lifetime will offer more consolation than many Masses said for you after death.

[quote]A few months ago, when British soccer player David Beckham (of "Bend It Like Beckham" fame) was involved in a tabloid scandal that threatened to disrupt his marriage, a concerned London-based fan decided to pay for a Catholic Mass that would help Mr. Beckham ease his way out of the troubled period.[/quote]
As if Protestants never pray for famous people? Or ever popular people? I would certainly hope that they [i]do[/i] pray for the likes of David Beckham, otherwise, that's another reason for me to embrace Catholicism instead.

But that's okay. I know Protestants, and in general, they do pray for others. I find it really weak that you are actually attacking Catholic for praying fo others. Take that at face value for a second. [b]You are criticising us for praying.[/b] For crying out loud.

[quote]Even human judges have enough compassion to give a prisoner a more definitive sentence.[/quote]
If you die in a state of grace, you go to Heaven.
If you die in mortal sin, you go to Hell.
Nothing else matters. Purgatory is only temporary, and shall pass.
Sound pretty definitive to me.

Oh in case you were interested, those who die wearing the Brown Scapular will get out of Purgatory on the first Saturday after their death. And we do have such things as plenary indulgences. If you actually get one, you don't have to go to purgatory. In fact, their are all sots of indulgences, plenary and partial, that you can get through prayer and serving the Lord.

[quote]Interesting how the wealthy person has many more Masses being said for them then the poor. Not a fair system at all. But nothing in Catholicism is.[/quote]
Least of all, our notion that Jesus died for our sins. We are eternally indebted to the Savior, so we're really in no position to to cry "foul."

Anyways, I really doubt that the wealthy are at an advantage. People like David Beckham have to face so many temptations that we don't have to face quite as often: greed, self-love, marrying for the sake of having sex with a Playboy model, easy access to all sorts of drugs and alcohol, etc. etc.


[quote]THEY TAKE MASTERCARD AND VISA

What a Racket![/quote]
You know just as well as I do that they also accept PayPal.

Is Roger Federer Catholic?

[OLAM Dad]

How many Masses does it take to get out of Purgatory?

I'm not sure, Budge, but if I was you I would worry about getting there first.

[Eutychus]

[quote]You know just as well as I do that they also accept PayPal. [/quote]

GOOD ONE!!

[Budge]

[quote]rst of all, your greatest consolation at death will be the Masses that you has heard, not the ones that others have heard for you. I don't mean to diminish the power of others praying for a dead or living person's soul, but it has been said in apparations and such that one Mass heard during your lifetime will offer more consolation than many Masses said for you after death.[/quote]

I very much doubt that I will be thinking of Catholic Masses when Im about to die. Jesus is the first name that comes to my mind when Im in medical related or any other trouble.


[quote]If you die in a state of grace, you go to Heaven.
If you die in mortal sin, you go to Hell.
Nothing else matters. Purgatory is only temporary, and shall pass.
Sound pretty definitive to me.[/quote]

How long does Purgatory last.

is Temporary 10 seconds or 10,000 years?

that is WHAT I am talking about.

And none of you Catholics have any assurance of heaven, given you believe in the sin of presumption.
[quote]
Oh in case you were interested, those who die wearing the Brown Scapular will get out of Purgatory on the first Saturday after their death. And we do have such things as plenary indulgences. If you actually get one, you don't have to go to purgatory. In fact, their are all sots of indulgences, plenary and partial, that you can get through prayer and serving the Lord.
[/quote]

Please dont tell me that you are depending on a little scrap of clothe to get you to heaven. You know Jesus would consider that idolatry.
[quote]
QUOTE
Interesting how the wealthy person has many more Masses being said for them then the poor. Not a fair system at all. But nothing in Catholicism is.

Least of all, our notion that Jesus died for our sins. We are eternally indebted to the Savior, so we're really in no position to to cry "foul."[/quote]

Jesus had no place to lie his head while on this earth, why would He set up a system, where the rich benefit or even the middle class over the homeless person?

[jswranch]

[quote name='Budge' post='1046612' date='Aug 20 2006, 07:27 AM']
How long does Purgatory last.

is Temporary 10 seconds or 10,000 years?

that is WHAT I am talking about.
[/quote]
We do not know how long Purgatory lasts. It may from now until the second coming or it may be instantaneous. Either way, our souls in the after life are not bound by time as we know it now.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1046612' date='Aug 20 2006, 09:27 AM']And none of you Catholics have any assurance of heaven, given you believe in the sin of presumption. [/quote]Protestants don't have an assurance of heaven either. I've found that a born-again protestant finds it impossible to doubt his own salvation; he's taught that he doesn't have to worry. But, ask him about another "born-again" who they don't like, and there's a good chance they'll be able to doubt that person's assured salvation.

Quote [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew7.htm#v21"]Matthew 7:21-23[/url] against your fellow born-again; but make sure to never apply it to yourself, because your salvation is assured! LOL

[God the Father]

3

[Norseman82]

[quote name='OLAM Dad' post='1046591' date='Aug 20 2006, 08:05 AM']
How many Masses does it take to get out of Purgatory?

I'm not sure, Budge, but if I was you I would worry about getting there first.
[/quote]

You are SO fortunate that I didn't have anything in my mouth when I read that...you'd be helping me clean food out of a laptop!!!

[quote name='Budge' post='1046544' date='Aug 20 2006, 06:12 AM']
Interesting how the wealthy person has many more Masses being said for them then the poor. Not a fair system at all. But nothing in Catholicism is.

[url="https://www.kintera.org/site/apps/ka/sd/donor.asp?c=9dJHJLPwB&b=979173&en=pvJVL6PSJbJOIcP2KiIOKbMSJlL9LjO0KlLRIcNVKhLXKiPaE"]THEY TAKE MASTERCARD AND VISA[/url]

What a Racket!
[/quote]

Obviously someone missed this part:

[quote]You are not required to make such a donation[/quote]

Interestingly, one of the good works of the Catholic Church is its school system, where generations of people learned how to READ.

Edited August 21, 2006 by Norseman82

[Dave]

Catholics don't "pay" for Masses to be said; they include a donation (which is optional). The donation is a stipend for the priest because, according to the Bible, the laborer is worth his pay.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Budge' post='1046544' date='Aug 20 2006, 06:12 AM']
do you know how many it takes?

Even human judges have enough compassion to give a prisoner a more definitive sentence.

[/quote]

So, you're saying that God isn't compassionate compared to humans?

[Franimus]

i've heard of a saint having an apparition or something of her father, who told her if 100 (or something) more Masses were said for him he'd be out of Purgatory...

[Didacus]

Purgatory, purgatoryk, purgatory...

[curtins]

[quote] Please dont tell me that you are depending on a little scrap of clothe to get you to heaven. You know Jesus would consider that idolatry [/quote]

We don't depend on the cloth. In wearing the scapular We depend on Mary and her prayers and intercesion. We depend on her relationship with her son and her power, just as seen in Cana when she asked Jesus to do something when they ran out of wine. The Cloth is just the outward sign of the devotion. And we by no means worship the scapular- that would be idolatry, so your entire argument is false.