Habitted Lay Folks?

[brendan1104]

Is that a question?

If so some lay people are permitted under certain circumstances to wear habits.

[melikalani]

Whoa... what happened to my original post?

[quote]Has anyone ever encountered lay people wearing "habits" or habit-like outfits?

I was at the vegetable market yesterday when a woman walked past me wearing a brown robe midway between the knee and the ankle, a brown scapular the same length as the robe and sandals. Her hair was in a ponytail. Handstitched on the front and back of the scapular were a cross and a symbol like that of the Assumption Sisters.
[img]http://www.geocities.com/assumption4477/class44-2blue.gif[/img]

Since there is a Carmelite Monastery only a few blocks from the vegetable market, I asked her if she was a Carmelite (maybe a Third Order or something?) and I guess she didn't understand me because she said, "I'm Mexican." She also had 2 children and a man with her and I presume they are her family.

There's also a woman in our parish that wears a tight brown velvet dress and around her waist is a cord tied with three knots! I'm not sure if one of those knots is to represent poverty because her hair is always styled and she wears high heels, jewelry and makeup with this outfit. In addition she wears a scapular that is literally two 8x11" pieces of brown felt on top of her clothing. There is something embroidered on the felt, but I haven't gotten a good look.

Next time I see her, I'd like to ask her why she wears this outfit, but I'm not sure what to say. Maybe I should also ask her if she's a Carmelite and see what response I get?

Another time a priest-friend (wearing his clerics) and I were at a warehouse store when we spotted a older man wearing a cassock eating some samples (cassocks are few and far between in my neck of the woods!). Father decided to ask the man his name and when the man turned around and saw us he literally [i]SPRINTED [/i] in the other direction.

Aside from Cassock-Man (who I think was absolutely pretending ), what do you make of the two women? Could they be of a Third Order? And if so, do you know of any Third Orders that require their members to wear a "uniform"? [/quote]

[brendan1104]

Melissa:

I am guessing the Mexican woman was a Third Order member. Because Mexico is a Catholic country, traditionally members of third orders have been allowed to wear an abbreviated habit there.

Regarding the woman with the three knots cord: she was probably a secular Franciscan, but isn't exactly observing Franciscan poverty. In the U.S. tertiaries have generally not worn a public, abbreviated habit- especially in the past 40 or so years, but there is also a confraternity of the Franciscan cord which she could belong to- either way she's obviously very Franciscan, and isn't exactly wearing a habit, just a cord, so there's nothing wrong.

Now are you sure that man in a cassock wasn't an Anglican/episcopalian 'priest'? He could've been, or he could've been Catholic- visiting or not. He could've been a seminarian- either church- or just some guy dressing up in a cassock thinking it's a dress, yeah I know - or he could've been impersonating a cleric for some reason.

Hope this helps.

[OLAM Dad]

By lay person I'm guessing you mean just a normal person living in the world? I've seen it before but it's always struck me as very odd. I don't know whether it is allowed or not.

[brendan1104]

Lay Dominicans can now only be buried in the habit...

[OLAM Dad]

fwiw, technically all non-ordained are laity. Seminarians, nuns, etc.

[melikalani]

[quote name='OLAM Dad' post='1046290' date='Aug 18 2006, 03:13 PM']
fwiw, technically all non-ordained are laity. Seminarians, nuns, etc.
[/quote]

Yes! I was originally going to call this thread "Bad Habits", but I thought that might not be too charitable!

[OLAM Dad]

True that.

[cmaD2006]

I'm answering with my limited knowledge ...

It is from what I can tell a tradition in some foreign countries. I've seen it in Mexico, and I'm pretty sure that other latin american countries do the same.

The third orders may wear a sort of habit (brown for carmelite or franciscan ... on another note I think there is a sort of habit/uniform for those devoted to the sacred heart, etc.), but sometimes a sort of habit is worn for other reasons ... sometimes they make a "promise" to do so for a certain length of time (it could be a form of penance, or because of a favor received).

I also know a couple of lay persons here in the US who have adopted simple dress for a period of time (either all brown in honor of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel, or black and white, etc.)

Having traveled (and lived for a few months) in Mexico, and having met so many people from so many countries while being a member of a spanish parish -- I've learned to respect the customs. Besides, it takes some guts to wear a "habit" here in the US.

Hope this helps a bit (I wished I had more exact details though).

-- Carmen

[brandelynmarie]

I have been on retreats for Third Order Carmelites (Yeah, I've managed to crash 2 of them!) & they will sometimes wear a very large brown scappular during the retreat...I always thought they were the kind you would hang on a wall...sorta like one of those really large rosaries...They do use them as a habit of sorts...

[Gemma]

Lay people usually have to have some kind of bishop's permission to wear a religious habit outside of, for instance, a third order meeting that is contained in a room. Even then, it's usually only for "investitures." I know when our Lay Dominican group received their pins and small scapulars, I wore a large scapular (like what the sisters wore) over my regular clothes. But that was 16 years ago.

Consecrated virgins and diocesan hermits will sometimes wear habits. Depends on the diocese--and the needs of that diocese.

HTH.

Blessings,
Gemma