Christian Zionism Cultic?

[thessalonian]

I don't know if any of you are familiar with Hank Hanagraph. He's a national host of a show called "The Bible Answer Man". He happens to be on a local station and so I listen to him from time to time. Well last night I was listening and he had the author of the book "Christian Zionism: Road to Armagedon?" [url="http://www.equip.org/store/details.asp?SKU=B926"]http://www.equip.org/store/details.asp?SKU=B926[/url] on. The show was rather hard on Christian Zionism. I pretty much agreed with what was said and it made a very good point that God wants both Arabs and Jews to be converted and is not really on either side in a sense, though the atrocities should be condemned. Actually a very Catholic position. Mr. Hanagraph also in the last few years has come out as Amillenial and very close to what Catholcism would say on that issue. This caused quite a stire in the evangelical crowd in particular because he was quite against the pre-trib rapture and Lahaye and Jenkins stuff. Well last night he mentioned them and implied the movement was "cultic". This station I was listening to is very pre-trib Lahaye and Jenkins/Christian Zionist/dispensationalist/pre-trib friendly. I think it is going to cause a bit of a stir to say the least. Wonder if the station will drop him.

[thessalonian]

By the way, if anyone wants to hear the show it's available online.

[url="http://www.oneplace.com/Ministries/bible_answer_man/Archives.asp"]http://www.oneplace.com/Ministries/bible_a...an/Archives.asp[/url]

[thessalonian]

Yes it is going to create a brewhaha evidently. I got this from another host from that station that I emailed.

"I heard and am trying to do something about it. He is dangerous."

[Sojourner]

I've been reading Hank Hanegraaf's stuff for years. He publishes the "Christian Research Journal" or did several years ago, and I was a subscriber. He's got a book called "The Prayer of Jesus" that he wrote in answer to "The Prayer of Jabez." He does a good job of calling out much of the carp that's part of the evangelical subculture, and in doing so hasn't made himself particularly popular.

I heard rumors at one point that he was thinking about converting to Catholicism, or that a bunch of people on his staff were or something along those lines.

[Picard]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1044676' date='Aug 16 2006, 02:53 PM']
Yes it is going to create a brewhaha evidently. I got this from another host from that station that I emailed.

"I heard and am trying to do something about it. He is dangerous."
[/quote]

LOL those proties always give me a good chuckle. I happened to come across the bible man on the radio one day, I would no be surprised if he becomes Catholic.

[Paladin]

To quote Mark Shea, the Reformation has been killed by its children. Ask a Protestant what the Reformation was about, and they'll tell you it's about removing the church from Romish phariseeist obedience to the law and works in favor of true faith in Christ Jesus.

Nowadays, you find Episcopal bishops saying it doesn't matter if you believe in Jesus if you do good work, and Evangelicals trying to reinstitute Levitican sacrifice in Jerusalem so Jesus can have the right number of slaughtered unblemished sheep for the Second Coming.

Nothing new under the sun.

[jswranch]

[url="http://www.equip.org/essentials/index.asp"]What are the essentials?[/url]

This article really makes me depressed for these guys. Do they not know what doors they have opened? As a convert, I am so glad to be out of that foggy existance of not knowing what the 'essentials' are.

Some interesting quotes from the CRI website:
[quote] By pointing to the Bible as both the source and final court of truth, Hank daily equips listeners to discern right from wrong and avoid deception (2 Timothy 3:16-17) like no one else on the air today.[/quote]

In "WHAT ARE SOME OF THE COMMON MARKS OF THE CULTS?"
[quote]The first mark of a cult is its manipulation of Scripture. The Bible is twisted to fit the leader or group’s interpretation. Private interpretations are forbidden because the leader of the cult is the only one, of course, who is able to understand God’s voice properly. Their teachings distort the historic, orthodox claims of Christianity.[/quote] Ok, sounds like Luther, Calvin, and the Southern Baptist conventions.

[quote]Second, many times cults manipulate people’s minds. ... Education is usually discouraged while the convert is bombarded with the cult’s doctrine and literature.[/quote]
Such as statues and Crucifixes are evil. But pictures of Jesus and movies such as the passion are just fine.

[quote]A third mark is the manipulation of time. Since salvation comes exclusively from the teachings of the group,...[/quote] I am still looking for the, "You must have a personal relationship with Jeus," line in the bible or, "The bible is sufficient for all teachings to the exclusion of any tradition."

I really am praying for his reconcilliation, along with Marshal Mathers (Eminem), Episcopal Bishop Jack Iker, Ted Haggard (Pres of National Association of Evangelicals), and George W. Bush.

Edited September 7, 2006 by jswranch

[thessalonian]

There are many lists of essentials on the internet and elsewhere. Lists of essentials always fall short. The problem is what they say is "everything that is neccessary for salvation is contained in the Bible but most of it is unneccessary and what we misinterpret because we are not infallible does not matter". The scriptures tell us "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" and "they shall worship in spirit and in truth.". So the truth is knowable and does matter. God holds his people to a higher standard for truth.

Another thing I find is that this list mentality for many allows them to say that all of what you believe that they don't believe is in error but those are the unimportant things so your a Christian too. Most often the Eucharist is on that list ("unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you shall not have life within you"). Ya, that unneccessary doctrine.

Edited September 7, 2006 by thessalonian

[thessalonian]

This article needs to be linked in to this thread as well.

[url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060831/wl_nm/mideast_religion_dc"]http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060831/wl_nm/...ast_religion_dc[/url]

[Picard]

[quote name='jswranch' post='1058234' date='Sep 7 2006, 12:08 AM']
I really am praying for his reconcilliation, along with Marshal Mathers (Eminem), Episcopal Bishop Jack Iker, Ted Haggard (Pres of National Association of Evangelicals), and George W. Bush.
[/quote]

Well the only one you mention that has any hope would be Iker (I wonder if he’s aware of the Anglican Use...) As for Haggard I saw a Richard Dawkins (who I do not recommend or endorse btw) documentary where he interviewed Haggard about evolution. Long story short Haggard made a fool of himself and showed his true colors by almost physically attacking Dawkins while he and his camera crew were packing up. Haggard was babbling something about how "My sheep are not animals!" (His sheep being his followers). The whole thing further entrenched my theory that evangelicals are a cult that they will end up becoming the "One World Religion" under the "New World Order" (a creation of United States imperialism and forced state building perhaps?) that their pagan like millennialism prophets speak of so much. It’s rather disturbing how they almost worship Israel and the United States. But then again Protestants have always been pretty good at state worshiping (2nd Reich German Empire and Victorian England, anyone?)

[Steve in Vista]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1044469' date='Aug 16 2006, 08:02 AM']


... The show was rather hard on Christian Zionism. ...[/quote]

Good. Christian Zionism and Zionism in general are by definition Antichrist.


Heb:6:
1 ¶ Wherefore, leaving the word of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to things more perfect: not laying again the foundation of penance from dead works and of faith towards God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms and imposition of hands, and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 Have moreover tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come,
6 And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God and making him a mockery.
7 For the earth, that drinketh in the rain which cometh often upon it and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is tilled, receiveth blessing from God.
8 But that which bringeth forth thorns and briers is reprobate and very near unto a curse: whose end is to be burnt.
9 ¶ But, my dearly beloved, we trust better things of you, and nearer to salvation; though we speak thus.
10 For God is not unjust, that he should forget your work and the love which you have shewn in his name, you who have ministered and do minister to the saints.
11 And we desire that every one of you shew forth the same carefulness to the accomplishing of hope unto the end:
12 That you become not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience shall inherit the promises.
13 For God making promises to Abraham, because he had no one greater by whom he might swear, swore by himself,
14 Saying: Unless blessing I shall bless thee and multiplying I shall multiply thee.
15 And so patiently enduring he obtained the promise.
16 For men swear by one greater than themselves: and an oath for confirmation is the end of all their controversy.
17 Wherein God, meaning more abundantly to shew to the heirs of the promise the immutability of his counsel, interposed an oath:
18 That by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we may have the strongest comfort, we who have fled for refuge to hold fast the hope set before us.
19 Which we have as an anchor of the soul, sure and firm, and which entereth in even within the veil:
20 [b][u]Where the forerunner Jesus is entered for us, made a high priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedech[/u].[/b](DRV)

1Jn:2:
1 ¶ My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin. But if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the just.
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3 ¶ And by this we know that we have known him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He who saith that he knoweth him and keepeth not his commandments is a liar: and the truth is not in him.
5 But he that keepeth his word, in him in very deed the charity of God is perfected. And by this we know that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.
7 ¶ Dearly beloved, I write not a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you have heard.
8 Again a new commandment I write unto you: which thing is true both in him and in you, because the darkness is passed and the true light now shineth.
9 He that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light: and there is no scandal in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness and walketh in darkness and knoweth not whither he goeth: because the darkness hath blinded his eyes.
12 ¶ I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
13 I write unto you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one.
14 I write unto you, babes, because you have known the Father. I write unto you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and you have overcome the wicked one.
15 Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man love the world, the charity of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world is the concupiscence of the flesh and the concupiscence of the eyes and the pride of life, which is not of the Father but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away and the concupiscence thereof: but he that doth the will of God abideth for ever.
18 ¶ Little children, it is the last hour: and as you have heard that Antichrist cometh, even now there are become many Antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us: but that they may be manifest, that they are not all of us.
20 ¶ But you have the unction from the Holy One and know all things.
21 I have not written to you as to them that know not the truth, but as to them that know it: and that no lie is of the truth.
22 [b][u]Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father and the Son[/u].[/b]23 [b][u]Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. He that confesseth the Son hath the Father also[/u].[/b]24 As for you, let that which you have heard from the beginning abide in you. If that abide in you, which you have heard from the beginning, you also shall abide in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise which he hath promised us, life everlasting.
26 [b][u]These things have I written to you concerning them that seduce you[/u].[/b]
27 And as for you, let the unction, which you have received from him abide in you. And you have no need that any man teach you: but as his unction teacheth you of all things and is truth and is no lie. And as it hath taught you, abide in him.
28 ¶ And now, little children, abide in him, that when he shall appear we may have confidence and not be confounded by him at his coming.
29 If you know that he is just, know ye, that every one also who doth justice is born of him.
(DRV)

ZIONISM, FROM IT'S VERY INCEPTION, HAS AS IT'S BASE: LURIANIC CABALISM. THIS ABOMINABLE SATANIC DOCTRINE DENIES THE AUTHORITY OF GOD, DENIES THE SON JESUS CHRIST, PROMOTES THE IDEA THAT SATAN CAN BE BENEFICIAL TO MANKIND, BLASPHEMES THE SPIRIT OF GRACE, HAS NO FORGIVENESS AND IS THE BASIS FOR THE PERSECUTION OF PALESTINIAN CATHOLICS AND ORTHODOX CHURCH MEMBERS AND OTHERS BY THE JEWS IN THE MODERN STATE OF "ISRAEL" SINCE 1948 UNTIL THE PRESENT.

[color="#FF0000"]Heb:
20 [b][u]Where the forerunner Jesus is entered for us, made a high priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedech[/u].[/b](DRV)

1Jn:2
22 [b][u]Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father and the Son[/u].[/b]23 [b][u]Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. He that confesseth the Son hath the Father also[/u].[/b](DRV)[/color]


Psalm 1:1 Beatus vir qui nonabiit in consilio impiorum... Blessed is that man who doesn't walk in the counsel of the impious