Out & In ~ RCIA ~ Revolving Doors ~ Evangelism

[Eutychus]

[quote]I'm sorry that you have had such a poor experience with Catholics in the past. But please don't allow those experiences to taint your view of every Catholic you ever encounter, that would be silly. [/quote]

My entire family is Roman Catholic, I went to Catholic Church schools from 1-12, so it isn't like I don't have some background here, beyond and extending past the online interactions.

[quote]Perhaps you should consider the fact that you may be the only Protestant that many people ever have contact with. [/quote]

That would be impossible, since I'm NOT a Protestant.

We don't protest anything, we did not split from anyone, and we don't have a reformation history to look towards.

By the way, MOST evangelicals and pentecostals are NOT protestants in the strict sense of the word.

[quote][u]This is actually my first on-line encounter with a Protestant, [/u]can you honestly say that you have come here in a charitable loving manner? What kind of conclusions are we to draw about Protestants from your behaviour? [/quote]

I suggest you get out more then.

Living in little islands of like minded people leads to many errors and is very constraining.

[Anomaly]

Eut,
I'm no longer 'Catholic', but sheesh. Come on man.
I taught Catholic kids for years and some didn't 'get it' and learn even the fundamental basics of theology and Christianity.
I don't want to be hurtful, but I recognize your style.

[Justified Saint]

And why exactly do you have dinner once a week with a RCIA director? Is it for the same reason that you come to this board?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1041611' date='Aug 11 2006, 03:24 PM']
As odd as this sounds, every Tuesday night I have dinner with the local RCIA director for two smaller parishes. As you might expect, the ongoing discussion is around the Roman church and what I have been discussing online for the past week.

Last tuesday, I was commenting to him, that our local church's new member class, which is hosted every other month, or six times a year, had 33 candidates, as I always do, I ask how many were formerly Roman Catholics, and in line with every other time for the past two years, 60% or thereabouts raised their hands. That means our ONE church is taking in over a hundred ex Roman Catholics a year, and that is only the ones that bother to join, as you know, many come for years and never formally join.

Now we are a decent sized church, evangelical/pentecostal/bible heavy, and we are in the same exact marketplace as my friend the RCIA director. He never believes it when we compare notes, since last year they had TWO candidates, and the year before one.

Interestingly enough, they appointed him Evangelism Major Domo { I really don't remember the title he used } this year too. So we were talking about Evangelism. Oddly, and sadly, the poor man didn't have a CLUE what evangelism WAS, other than to get back lapsed Roman Catholics into the pews. When I started teaching him that evangelism was going out, and getting converts for CHRIST, getting people saved, he gave me that patented "deer in the headlights look" that I always get from Romanists when you try and tell them that Christianity is not a church, but a message and a relationship.

Anyway, knowing he did not have any idea whatsoever what I was trying to communicate, I gave him some generic evangelism materials from this group, who NEVER not ONCE mention any denomination whatsoever in their evangelism efforts.

[img]http://www.livingwaters.com/images/_images_icons/wotmr.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.livingwaters.com/images/-images_all/evangelism.jpg[/img]

It should be interesting to see if:

One - he even bothered to look at the videos.

Two- he can understand that evangelism is not church growth.

Three- the goal is salvation, not putting butts into the pews.

[url="http://www.livingwaters.com/"]IF YOU WANT TO SEE THEM IN ACTION, CLICK HERE[/url]
[/quote]

So you are into the numbers game? I see that a lot in various denominations. Some of my fundamentalist friends have been thru 4-5 churches. Everytime they have a disagreement with the preacher they start a new group somewhere else.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1041807' date='Aug 11 2006, 09:40 PM']
So you are into the numbers game? I see that a lot in various denominations. Some of my fundamentalist friends have been thru 4-5 churches. Everytime they have a disagreement with the preacher they start a new group somewhere else.[/quote]Church-shopping is a pretty standard behavior among protestants. There are plenty of reasons for them to shop. For example:
1) When moving to a new town, they need to shop.
2) When the pastor takes a stand on a particular doctrine, a disagreement might lead to the need to shop (as a side note, one of the resultant hallmarks of the new bible-churches/non-denominational sects is the lack of doctrinal depth).
3) When there is a problem with the social identity of the church (e.g. getting along with the pastor or other members, differing musical tastes, too many old people, too many young people, etc), it's time to go shopping.
[quote name='Eutychus']That means our ONE church is taking in over a hundred ex Roman Catholics a year...[/quote]Here's the problem with your numbers. Many of those ex-Catholics fell away long ago. They may have been through orientation programs at multiple protestant churches before their latest denominational flavor of the month. Chances are, they have adopted the same pattern of behavior as I listed above.

The obvious un-asked question is, how quickly is your church's revolving door turning?

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1041700' date='Aug 11 2006, 05:30 PM']
My entire family is Roman Catholic, I went to Catholic Church schools from 1-12, so it isn't like I don't have some background here, beyond and extending past the online interactions.
That would be impossible, since I'm NOT a Protestant.

We don't protest anything, we did not split from anyone, and we don't have a reformation history to look towards.

By the way, MOST evangelicals and pentecostals are NOT protestants in the strict sense of the word.
I suggest you get out more then.

Living in little islands of like minded people leads to many errors and is very constraining.
[/quote]
Well, if they're not protestant, but they are Christian...then they would be Catholic...which I bet they'd disagree with even more...

[Jeff]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1041882' date='Aug 11 2006, 11:13 PM']

The obvious un-asked question is, how quickly is your church's revolving door turning?
[/quote]

Ray Comfort, the creator of this website, is the first to point out that the overwhelming majority of people making a decision for Christ are nowhere to be found a year later.

[Eutychus]

[quote]
Ray Comfort, the creator of this website, is the first to point out that the overwhelming majority of people making a decision for Christ are nowhere to be found a year later. [/quote]

Agreed, and correct. { you must be watching the TV show, or have read the books...}

The reason is that the very motivation for conversion was improperly explained.

Essentially, people are being sold the lifestyle BENEFITS of being a Christian, instead of the post lifetime promise of NO HELL. Therefore, when the benefits promised fail to materialize, health, wealth, respect, and happiness...they fall away.

[CatholicCid]

Sorry to pop in, but I was just reading through this and thought it was somewhat interesting...

Though, I am somewhat lost... So what if the RCIA Class only has 1-2 people in it a year?
As you said "evangelism is not church growth" and "the goal is salvation, not putting butts into the pews."
Or, as Luke 15:7 put it, "I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance."

From the last two posts below (above?) it seems he might understand evagelization better then the source you gave him.

Edited August 12, 2006 by CatholicCid

[desertwoman]

Ray Comfort!!! He was my teacher at Coastal Carolina University!

He's a great great humble man who has been through alot. I miss him!!

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]The obvious un-asked question is, how quickly is your church's revolving door turning?[/quote]


[quote]Though, I am somewhat lost... So what if the RCIA Class only has 1-2 people in it a year?
As you said "evangelism is not church growth" and "the goal is salvation, not putting butts into the pews."[/quote]

Way to stick it to the man. I doubt he'll even respond to these, and if he does, without any depth. Especially to the point that he's tauting his growth, when he admits growth in itsef means nuthin.

Edited August 12, 2006 by dairygirl4u2c

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1042048' date='Aug 12 2006, 04:19 AM']
Agreed, and correct. { you must be watching the TV show, or have read the books...}

The reason is that the very motivation for conversion was improperly explained.

Essentially, people are being sold the lifestyle BENEFITS of being a Christian, instead of the post lifetime promise of NO HELL. Therefore, when the benefits promised fail to materialize, health, wealth, respect, and happiness...they fall away.[/quote]So now, it's Ray Comfort's fault for selling a "health and wealth" gospel? I thought that he was "doing it right" by focusing on the threat of hell.

[Eutychus]

[quote]So now, it's Ray Comfort's fault for selling a "health and wealth" gospel? [/quote]

With that you have shown just how ignorant you are ....

Sorry, Comfort/Cameron are 'selling' the anti-properity gospel. I suggest you actually leave your little coccoon of self adulation, and go spend a 1/2 hour on the site and learn a few things before flapping your yapper fellah.

Now, AGAIN, here is the link, and if you are skilled enough, you might remember, that to GO THERE, all you need do is click on it.

Best, and come back and tell us all about the WEALTH message you see on that site...OR come back, and admit that you didn't know a darned thing and was just running off at your keyboard.

[url="http://www.livingwaters.com/columns_ray/"]YOU CLICK ON THIS FOR THE TERMINALLY CHALLENGED [/url]

[Mateo el Feo]

Eutychus, I'm afraid you must not have read my second sentence. If you need me to be clearer, just tell me.

[CoffeeCatholic]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1041611' date='Aug 11 2006, 03:24 PM']
he gave me that patented "deer in the headlights look" that I always get from Romanists when you try and tell them that Christianity is not a church, but a message and a relationship.

[/quote]

it's all about the Eucharist, hun. See, it IS about a church, but not the building. It's about what's in the little box in the back, what used to be bread wafers. It's about the fact that Catholics have the faith of a mustard seed when it comes to our Lord being able to present Himself in the accidental of bread and wine.

The ex-Catholics you have joining your church were never properly catachised. A sad thought. It's impossible to believe that a person who believes in God and believes in God's omnipotence, His inability to not be able to do something (mind trip!), would honestly understand the amazing doctrine of the Eucharist, know why we believe it, and have faith in it, simply to loose it and go to a protestant church, which is remarkably empty.

It wouldn't happen. I bet if you asked all of your 100 ex-catholic friends what they thought of the Eucharist, what it is, how it works, etc., almost all of them would tell you that they never believed in the true presence. If you found one person who could properly tell you what the Eucharist is, why the church believes in it, the Biblical support AND the traditional support, the miracles it has created, and THEN tell you why they left the church, i will eat my shoe.

oh, and just to let you know, there's now a major shift in the number of protestants, and people of other faiths for that matter, "switching teams" and joining the Roman Catholic church. The RC church has the second largest membership in America (only to the southern baptists), which means that if our membership is, lets say, 20 times that of yours, it would make sence for you to possibly have 20 ex-catholics for every 1 protestant convert of ours. However, the joy of it is that in recent years the numbers have NOT been even. Especially amoung the young adults, the college scene, Catholic Conversions have risen dramatically.

I know, i'm one of them