Do you think Israel should have been made?

[Resurrexi]

Anyone, even an infidel, can baptize validly. And teenagers are not children.

God bless and convert you to the Holy Catholic Church,
Tyler

Anyone, even an infidel, can baptize validly. And teenagers are not children.

God bless and convert you to the Holy Catholic Church,
Tyler

[stephen]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1042103' date='Aug 12 2006, 10:06 AM']


So many people followed the lead of geniuses like Joseph Kennedy. Hitler’s supporters will always be viewed as the enemy. And the same thing is happening today…
These chumps will be regarded as supporters of the enemy during this war, as being on the wrong side of history, of being short-sited, and of legitimatising a menace.
[/quote]

So those who supported and fought alongside "Uncle Joe" Stalin--butcher of tens of millions of innocent, mostly Christian civilians--which allowed for Communism to spread throughout the world [i]were not[/i] "short sighted chumps" then?

It seems to me that there are other criteria for Catholics to consider in evaluating world events than "is it good for the 'Jews?'"

There wasn't a right side to be on in WWII. Both sides were funded by NY bankers and Christian civilization would have been the looser no matter what the outcome which is how most conflict in the past century has been rigged. Those who opposed US involvement in WWII had every right to do so and your attempts to slander them and also those who oppose US involvement in yet another world war which is not in the interest of the US is reprehensible.

Edited August 16, 2006 by stephen

[Anomaly]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1044700' date='Aug 16 2006, 11:46 AM']
Anyone, even an infidel, can baptize validly. And teenagers are not children.

God bless and convert you to the Holy Catholic Church,
Tyler[/quote]13 is a child. Look it up. : But I am glad you were forced to recognize the Grace of God is present in, and operates through people and organizations that are 'outside' your personal definition of the Catholic Church. May God bless you with maturity and wisdom in His good time.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='stephen' post='1044745' date='Aug 16 2006, 02:59 PM']
There wasn't a right side to be on in WWII. [/quote]
Well, it sure wasn't Hitler's side....

[Resurrexi]

[quote]
QUOTE(stephen @ Aug 16 2006, 02:59 PM) *

There wasn't a right side to be on in WWII.

Well, it sure wasn't Hitler's side....
[/quote]

The Church opposed Hitler. Therefore, HSMom is right, the right side was whatever side Hitler wasn't on.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='stephen' post='1044745' date='Aug 16 2006, 03:59 PM']

There wasn't a right side to be on in WWII. [/quote]

That is a crock of BS.

[stephen]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1045016' date='Aug 16 2006, 09:23 PM']
That is a crock of BS.
[/quote]

Explain how siding with Stalin, (who killed tens of millions more innocents--mostly Christians--than Hitler) which led to the spread of Communism throughout the world (Communism being condemned by the Church in far more instances than Nazism), and caused the decline of Christendom throughout Europe, Asia, and South America, was the "right choice."

There was no right choice in WWII. The game was rigged against Christendom no matter what the outcome.

Edited August 17, 2006 by stephen

[Anomaly]

Stephen,
The US didn't 'side with Stalin', Stalin sided with the US and Britan against Germany. Common enemy, not common goals. You've just displayed the illegitamcy of your agenda with such a unsupportable claim.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1045252' date='Aug 17 2006, 05:40 AM']
Stephen,
The US didn't 'side with Stalin', Stalin sided with the US and Britan against Germany. Common enemy, not common goals. You've just displayed the illegitamcy of your agenda with such a unsupportable claim.
[/quote]

That's exactly what I was going to say... well, not exactly... but the main jist.

[Resurrexi]

I say we start a crusade to take Israel back for the Chosen People God, the Children of Israel: The Catholics.

[stephen]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1045252' date='Aug 17 2006, 06:40 AM']
Stephen,
The US didn't 'side with Stalin', Stalin sided with the US and Britan against Germany. [/quote]

The US was [i]the last[/i] great power to join the allies, long after Stalin and Churchill. [b]The US fought alongside Stalin[/b], no matter how you attempt to play games with who sided with who.



[quote name='Anomaly' post='1045252' date='Aug 17 2006, 06:40 AM']Common enemy, not common goals. [/quote]

Stalin was at least as dangerous an enemy to Christians and Christian civilization as Hitler. And FDR called his close personal friend, Stalin, that mass murderer of Christians--tens of millions of them--a "Christian gentleman."


[quote]

[b]The Friends of Uncle Joe[/b]

... Roosevelt’s eulogists likewise avoid the subject of Stalin, for whom FDR had the highest regard, calling him “a Christian gentleman” during the Yalta conference. He had befriended Stalin from the first year of his administration, when he extended diplomatic recognition to the murderous pariah state. Time and again he chose to help “Uncle Joe” when he didn’t have to, appeasing him from a position of strength. Even Neville Chamberlain never idealized Hitler as “Uncle Adolf.” [b]When FDR asked Pope Pius XII to condemn Hitler, Pius sent back word that if he did so he would also have to condemn Stalin; Roosevelt withdrew the request. [/b]

... Stalin had shown his true colors long before Roosevelt and Churchill took on as their ally the brave, bluff “Uncle Joe.” Had they never heard of the forced famine of Ukraine, the NKVD mass arrests, the Gulag camps, the purges and show trials, the murder of Trotsky, the invasions of Poland (with the Katyn Forest massacre of 15,000 Polish officers), Finland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania? All these things, and more, revealed not only the brutality of Stalin but the logic of Communism itself, which had begun its reign in Russia with the mass murder of Orthodox priests under Lenin. Communism was in essence a reversion to the principles of primitive warfare, directed not only against external enemies but against its own subjects if they resisted (or were even suspected of a disposition to resist) its tyranny.

[url="http://www.sobran.com/friends.shtml"]http://www.sobran.com/friends.shtml[/url][/quote]


[quote name='Anomaly' post='1045252' date='Aug 17 2006, 06:40 AM']You've just displayed the illegitamcy of your agenda with such a unsupportable claim.
[/quote]

What an amazing display of audacity.



[img]http://www.anusha.com/yalta.jpg[/img]
Photo from the Yalta Conference: Winston S. Churchill, Franklin D. Roosevelt and his close friend, "Uncle Joe" Stalin

Edited August 17, 2006 by stephen

[Jeff]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1044279' date='Aug 15 2006, 10:32 PM']
I guess Eastern Catholics are rad trads too since they don't attend the Novus Ordo Missae

I accept Vatican II for what it is: a pastoral Oecumenical Council.
I do not 'refuse' to read it. I 'refuse' to read the English translation. And I don't care what you (your not the Magisterium so your interpretation of the Catechism has NO VALUE WHATSOEVER) say becuase SIN (if you even believe in the concept) is the greatest evil that exists. And non-Catholic religions are SINFUL and therefore EVIL (if you believe evil to be more than anything that goes against one's own selfish desires) because they lead souls away from the TRUTH.
[/quote]

No, they don't deserve the title 'rad-trad', in my opinion, the eastern Orthodox are schismatic. Yes, the Church/Pope calls them,"the second lung of the church", that sounds nice, but the truth is the bishops of the eastern of the eastern orthodox church have no desire to reconcile with Rome.

I was just copying and pasting the CCC, (I didn't interpret anything). If you can show me a difference between the Latin and vernacular, I'm more than interested. I know you can't, so I won't be holding my breath.

Edited August 18, 2006 by Jeff

[Aloysius]

Eastern Catholics are not schismatic; he didn't say Eastern Orthodox.

[Resurrexi]

[quote] Eastern Catholics are not schismatic; he didn't say Eastern Orthodox.[/quote]

Thank you for clearing that up so I don't have to.
[quote]
Yes, the Church/Pope calls them,"the second lung of the church"
[/quote]

WRONG again! His Holiness calls the Eastern Catholics the second lung of the Church. The Greek Heterodox Schismatics are not even a part of the Church

[quote]I was just copying and pasting the CCC, (I didn't interpret anything). [/quote]

That quote doesn't tell me anything false. It said that the Ancient Jews who were the people of God before the coming of the Messias were the first to hear the Word of God and that, formerly, they had a covenant with God, but it is now consummated and fufilled in the New Testament. Also, even if the Catechism doesn't say we should hate non-Catholic religions, it's previously affirmed offocial Teaching, and the Teaching of the Church doesn't change. From the Catehchism of St. Pius X:

[quote] 10 Q. Who are they who do not belong to the Communion of Saints?
A. Those who are damned do not belong to the Communion of Saints in the other life; and in this life those who belong neither to the body nor to the soul of the Church, that is, those who are in mortal sin, and who are outside the true Church.

11 Q. Who are they who are outside the true Church?
A. Outside the true Church are: Infidels, Jews, heretics, apostates, schismatics, and the excommunicated.

12 Q. Who are infidels?
A. Infidels are those who have not been baptised and do not believe in Jesus Christ, because they either believe in and worship false gods as idolaters do, or though admitting one true God, they do not believe in the Messiah, neither as already come in the Person of Jesus Christ, nor as to come; for instance, Mohammedans and the like.

13 Q. Who are the Jews?
A. The Jews are those who profess the Law of Moses; have not received baptism; and do not believe in Jesus Christ.

14 Q. Who are heretics?
A. Heretics are those of the baptised who obstinately refuse to believe some truth revealed by God and taught as an article of faith by the Catholic Church; for example, the Arians, the Nestorians and the various sects of Protestants.

15 Q. Who are apostates?
A. Apostates are those who abjure, or by some external act, deny the Catholic faith which they previously professed.

16 Q. Who are schismatics?
A. Schismatics are those Christians who, while not explicitly denying any dogma, yet voluntarily separate themselves from the Church of Jesus Christ, that is, from their lawful pastors.

17 Q. Who are the excommunicated?
A. The excommunicated are those who, because of grievous transgressions, are struck with excommunication by the Pope or their Bishop, and consequently are cut off as unworthy from the body of the Church, which, however, hopes for and desires their conversion. [/quote]

Moving along;

[quote]If you can show me a difference between the Latin and vernacular, I'm more than interested. I know you can't, so I won't be holding my breath.[/quote]

First of all, I admit I'm not fluent in Latin, so I probably can't show you a difference. But modern "Catholic" translations are not trustworthy as we've seen with the Mass and Divine Office. But, I have a challenge for you: show me how they are NOT different. I'm not holding my breath either.

[Jeff]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1045790' date='Aug 18 2006, 12:20 AM']

WRONG again! His Holiness calls the Eastern Catholics the second lung of the Church. The Greek Heterodox Schismatics are not even a part of the Church

[/quote]

Mea culpa. For the same reason that I confused Eastern Catholics with Eastern Orthodox, I can't debate Latin with you - I'm new. I'm less fluent in Latin than you.

I was raised in Christian sect that believed they, and only they, were saved. I wasn't able to believe it about them and I'm not able to believe it about 'us'.