Do you think Israel should have been made?

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1041847' date='Aug 11 2006, 10:39 PM']
Did it occur to you that such a thread is a teaching moment and an excellent occasion to correct error?
[/quote]
You are right… a teaching moment.
This is also a study in the WW2 era “axis of appeasement” and the “America First” people who allowed monsters to go as far as he did before acting.

There were people back then following the lead of people like [u]Joseph Kennedy Sr., America’s ambassador to the Court of St. James who saw Hitler as “a welcome solution to the ‘world problems of… Judaism in Europe.”
Kennedy also told his Nazi counterpart that Franklin Roosevelt was “the victim of ‘Jewish influence’ ” –Germany reported back that Kennedy was “Germany’s best friend” in London.[/u]

This is [b]history happening today[/b]...

So many people followed the lead of geniuses like Joseph Kennedy. Hitler’s supporters will always be viewed as the enemy. And the same thing is happening today…
These chumps will be regarded as supporters of the enemy during this war, as being on the wrong side of history, of being short-sited, and of legitimatising a menace.

[stephen]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1042092' date='Aug 12 2006, 09:28 AM']

this seems to be the only subject at PM that has ever really made it difficult for my blood pressure, lol
[/quote]

I'll bet it's frustrating attempting to force people to believe that support for Zionism is mandatory for Catholics when there is absolutely no authoritative Church support for such a notion and 2000 years of Church tradition maintain the exact opposite position.

And the fact that this is the issue that you're most passionate about, as you admit, speaks volumes about your concept of what Catholicism is. So does your character assassination campaign against those who disagree with you on this issue.

Edited August 12, 2006 by stephen

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='stephen' post='1042145' date='Aug 12 2006, 12:21 PM']
I'll bet it's frustrating attempting to force people to believe that support for Zionism is mandatory for Catholics...
[/quote]
that's cute, "Stephen"
but people can read my entire post
and I WROTE THIS:

You are right… a teaching moment.
This is also a study in the WW2 era “axis of appeasement” and the “America First” people who allowed monsters to go as far as he did before acting.

There were people back then following the lead of people like Joseph Kennedy Sr., America’s ambassador to the Court of St. James who saw Hitler as “a welcome solution to the ‘world problems of… Judaism in Europe.”
Kennedy also told his Nazi counterpart that Franklin Roosevelt was “the victim of ‘Jewish influence’ ” –Germany reported back that Kennedy was “Germany’s best friend” in London.

This is history happening today...

So many people followed the lead of geniuses like Joseph Kennedy. Hitler’s supporters will always be viewed as the enemy. And the same thing is happening today…
These chumps will be regarded as supporters of the enemy during this war, as being on the wrong side of history, of being short-sited, and of legitimatising a menace.

[Jeff]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1042033' date='Aug 12 2006, 02:33 AM']
Are you calling me a sede? Um, I wouldn't have His Holiness as my avatar if I were. And you better not be calling St. Pius X antisemetic.
[/quote]
O.k., do you consider yourself a "rad-trad"? Nothing wrong with that. Malachi Martin, (my hero), shared your views.

Also, would you argee that Pope Pius X was anti-Israel? True or not both Pope Pius's detractors and supporters have the impression that he was anti-semetic. I'm just curious why sedes seem to be anti-semetic.

[Resurrexi]

[quote]O.k., do you consider yourself a "rad-trad"? Nothing wrong with that. Malachi Martin, (my hero), shared your views. [/quote]

NO! I do not consider myself a "rad-trad". Here's what I am. I'm a Catholic. A Catholic who only attends he Novus Ordo Mass if there is no other Mass within an hour's drive or when it's said in Latin, ad Orientem, Communion only on the touge, kneeling for Communion, Communion only from the priest, only males wearing cassocks and not albs serving at the altar, with the Roman Canon (Eucharistic Prayer One). So far, I have never been to such a Nouvs Ordo Missae, though I know they exist. Twice a month I hear, the Traditional Latin Mass is said by indult in my diocese, and on the other sundays I hear an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy. None of those things make me a rad-trad. You shouldn't generalize people like that, Jeff.

[quote]Also, would you argee that Pope Pius X was anti-Israel? True or not both Pope Pius's detractors and supporters have the impression that he was anti-semetic. I'm just curious why sedes seem to be anti-semetic.[/quote]

I agree that Saint Pius X was against the Talmudic State of Israel. Just because he was against the Talmudic State of Israel doesn't make him antisemetic. Antisemetism is hatred of persons who belong to the Talmudic race or religion. St. Pius X hated no-one. Neither do I. I do, however, follow him in his hatred of the Jewish religion, along with all other non-Catholic religions.

[toledo_jesus]

Israel has the right to exist in as far as Imperial Britain had the right to do what it bloody wanted with its territorial possessions. Arabs better recognize.


As an aside, Mike Wallace was very rude to Iranian President Amadinejad. Very poor conduct.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1042206' date='Aug 12 2006, 04:55 PM']
NO! I do not consider myself a "rad-trad". Here's what I am. I'm a Catholic. A Catholic who only attends he Novus Ordo Mass if there is no other Mass within an hour's drive or when it's said in Latin, ad Orientem, Communion only on the touge, kneeling for Communion, Communion only from the priest, only males wearing cassocks and not albs serving at the altar, with the Roman Canon (Eucharistic Prayer One). So far, I have never been to such a Nouvs Ordo Missae, though I know they exist. Twice a month I hear, the Traditional Latin Mass is said by indult in my diocese, and on the other sundays I hear an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy. None of those things make me a rad-trad. You shouldn't generalize people like that, Jeff. [/quote]This post displays the illogical reasoning of somebody who has placed symbolism over substance, display over foundation, superficiality over depth. Dude, you haven't even been potty trained as long as most of the posters here have been an adult Catholic with years of graces of the sacraments. Or am I generalizing?

[Jeff]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1042206' date='Aug 12 2006, 06:55 PM']
NO! I do not consider myself a "rad-trad". Here's what I am. I'm a Catholic. A Catholic who only attends he Novus Ordo Mass if there is no other Mass within an hour's drive or when it's said in Latin, ad Orientem, Communion only on the touge, kneeling for Communion, Communion only from the priest, only males wearing cassocks and not albs serving at the altar, with the Roman Canon (Eucharistic Prayer One). So far, I have never been to such a Nouvs Ordo Missae, though I know they exist. Twice a month I hear, the Traditional Latin Mass is said by indult in my diocese, and on the other sundays I hear an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy. None of those things make me a rad-trad. You shouldn't generalize people like that, Jeff.
I agree that Saint Pius X was against the Talmudic State of Israel. Just because he was against the Talmudic State of Israel doesn't make him antisemetic. Antisemetism is hatred of persons who belong to the Talmudic race or religion. St. Pius X hated no-one. Neither do I. I do, however, follow him in his hatred of the Jewish religion, along with all other non-Catholic religions.
[/quote]

If you find the term rad-trad objectionable then give me another. I don't mean it as a pejoritive. How do you distingush yourself from those of us who attend the Novus Ordo Mass and accept VaticanII.

Regading your hatred of Judaism and all non-Catholic religions, since you refuse to read the CCC, let me quote it for you, (thanks for the[url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm"] link[/url], "thedude").

"The Church and non-Christians

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337"

[Era Might]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1043851' date='Aug 14 2006, 08:25 PM']As an aside, Mike Wallace was very rude to Iranian President Amadinejad. Very poor conduct.[/quote]
I don't know if I would call it "rude", but I thought it was a very poor journalistic interview. I don't care what Mike Wallace thinks. Just ask the questions and let us hear the answers.

[ruso]

Results of the "Libano war":
Libano
1109 civilians and soldiers of Lllibanese army died, and 300? members of hezbolla
2500 bn of dolars only in infrastructures.
Israel
135 civilians and soldiers died
5300 bn of dollars altogether, the property minister says.
Ah, and a heroe for the islamics more greater than Osama bin Laden, Hasrala.
It has been worth the trouble?.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1044187' date='Aug 15 2006, 03:44 PM']
I don't know if I would call it "rude", but I thought it was a very poor journalistic interview. I don't care what Mike Wallace thinks. Just ask the questions and let us hear the answers.
[/quote]

What did he expect?

[Resurrexi]

[quote]If you find the term rad-trad objectionable then give me another. I don't mean it as a pejoritive. How do you distingush yourself from those of us who attend the Novus Ordo Mass and accept VaticanII. [/quote]

I guess Eastern Catholics are rad trads too since they don't attend the Novus Ordo Missae

I accept Vatican II for what it is: a pastoral Oecumenical Council.

[quote]Regading your hatred of Judaism and all non-Catholic religions, since you refuse to read the CCC, let me quote it for you, (thanks for the link, "thedude").[/quote]

I do not 'refuse' to read it. I 'refuse' to read the English translation. And I don't care what you (your not the Magisterium so your interpretation of the Catechism has NO VALUE WHATSOEVER) say becuase SIN (if you even believe in the concept) is the greatest evil that exists. And non-Catholic religions are SINFUL and therefore EVIL (if you believe evil to be more than anything that goes against one's own selfish desires) because they lead souls away from the TRUTH.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1044279' date='Aug 15 2006, 08:32 PM']
I do not 'refuse' to read it. I 'refuse' to read the English translation. And I don't care what you (your not the Magisterium so your interpretation of the Catechism has NO VALUE WHATSOEVER) say becuase SIN (if you even believe in the concept) is the greatest evil that exists. And non-Catholic religions are SINFUL and therefore EVIL (if you believe evil to be more than anything that goes against one's own selfish desires) because they lead souls away from the TRUTH.
[/quote]You need to at least learn the principles of the Catholic faith and the principles of Christianity. Your myopic and purposefull limited understanding is a shame.
First off, all non-Catholic religions are NOT completely sinfull according to the Catholic Church.
Secondly, denying the Truths that non-Catholic Christians recognize and share in common with the Catholic Church is a grave and serious sin.
Thirdly, if you believe in the concept of Sin, then you would be familiar with the concpet of a heirarchal evaluation of the seriousness of sin.
Fourthly, just because you are 13 and have access to a computer without your mom and dad's supervision, it does not put you at the same level of understanding as adults.

[Resurrexi]

[quote] You need to at least learn the principles of the Catholic faith and the principles of Christianity.[/quote]

I've read two Catholic catechisms with imprimaturs (Baltimore #3 and St. Pius X) and am currently reading the Roman Catechism (the most authoritative catechism that exists) so I would say I understand the principles of the Catholilc faith.

[quote] Your myopic and purposefull limited understanding is a shame.[/quote]

My views are not myopic. I profess all the Dogmata of the Church and I accept the current Pope, the current Missa Normativa for the Latin Rite, and the most recently written offocial Catholic catechism, and the last Oecumenical council. How is that myopic. You're the one who is myopic: you obviously think Catholicism didn't exist until forty years ago.

[quote] First off, all non-Catholic religions are NOT completely sinfull according to the Catholic Church. [/quote]

Yes they are, according to the Catholic Church, becuase they lead souls away from Her.

[quote] Secondly, denying the Truths that non-Catholic Christians recognize and share in common with the Catholic Church is a grave and serious sin. [/quote]

that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. There is NO DOGMATA WHATSOEVER on other religions except that they are false, and no non-Dogmatic teaching except that the "gods" of those religions are devils (a teaching found in the bible "the gods of the Gentiles are devils"). There is no sin in not believing that we share truths with those religions.

[quote] Thirdly, if you believe in the concept of Sin, then you would be familiar with the concpet of a heirarchal evaluation of the seriousness of sin. [/quote]

If by that you mean the difference between mortal and venial sin, of course I'm familiar with that. And of course I know that, even withing mortal sin and venial sin, there are different levels of gravity.

[quote] Fourthly, just because you are 13 and have access to a computer without your mom and dad's supervision, it does not put you at the same level of understanding as adults. [/quote]

My parents have sanctioned me posting on phatmass, and you shouldn't comitt the sin of RASH JUDGEMENT by assuming evil about others. I do, however, think I understand Catholicism better than a good portion of "Catholic" adults.

[Anomaly]

I tire of trying to reason with a child, Tom.
If all non-Catholic Christians are EVIL, and can only lead away from God and the Catholic Churc, then why do Catholics recognize Sacramental and Salvific grace in their baptisms?