St. Basil The Great + St. Athanasius

[BeenaBobba]

Hi all,

What do you make of this letter St. Basil the Great wrote to St. Athanasius:

"As time moves on, it continually confirms the opinion which I have long held of your holiness; or rather that opinion is strengthened by the daily course of events. Most men are indeed satisfied with observing, each one, what lies especially within his own province; not thus is it with you, but your anxiety for all the Churches is no less than that which you feel for the Church that has been especially entrusted to you by our common Lord; inasmuch as you leave no interval in speaking, exhorting, writing, and despatching emissaries, who from time to time give the best advice in each emergency as it arises. Now, from the sacred ranks of your clergy, you have sent forth the venerable brother Peter, whom I have welcomed with great joy. I have also approved of the good object of his journey, which he manifests in accordance with the commands of your excellency, in effecting reconciliation where be finds opposition, and bringing about union instead of division. With the object of offering some contribution to the action which is being taken in this matter, I have thought that I could not make a more fitting beginning than by having recourse to your excellency, as to the head and chief of all, and treating you as alike adviser and commander in the enterprise. I have therefore determined to send to your reverence our brother Dorotheus the deacon, of the Church under the right honourable bishop Meletius, being one who at once is an energetic supporter of the orthodox faith, and is earnestly desirous of seeing the peace of the Churches. The results, I hope, will be, that, following your suggestions (which you are able to make with the less likelihood of failure, both from your age and your experience in affairs, and because you have a greater measure than all others of the aid of the Spirit), he may thus attempt the achievement of our objects. You will welcome him, I am Sure, and will look upon him with friendly eyes. You will strengthen him by the help of your prayers; you will give him a letter as provision by the way; you will grant him, as companions, some of the good men and true that you have about you; so you will speed him on the road to what is before him. It has seemed to me to be desirable to send a letter to the bishop of Rome, begging him to examine our condition, and since there are difficulties in the way of representatives being sent from the West by a general synodical decree, to advise him to exercise his own personal authority in the matter by choosing suitable persons to sustain the labours of a journey,--suitable, too, by gentleness and firmness of character, to correct the unruly among us here; able to speak with proper reserve and appropriateness, and thoroughly well acquainted with all that has been effected after Ariminum to undo the violent measures adopted there. I should advise that, without any one knowing anything about it, they should travel hither, attracting as little attention as possible, by the sea, with the object of escaping the notice of the enemies of peace." (Letter 69)

Now, this letter was quoted by my opponent in a debate on the papacy. St. Athanasius is described as "the head and chief of all," but what about the Pope? The way I'm seeing it so far is that St. Basil could be referring to the huge role St. Athanasius played in fighting the Arian heresy - - in a sense that he was in a way the head in the war against Arianism. On the other hand, the wording is "as to the head," so perhaps St. Basil is saying that he is looking up to St. Athanasius as he would to Rome, the head of the Church, thus his saying "as to the head." What do you think? Your comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,

God bless,

Jen

[phatcatholic]

jen,

i'm afraid i have more questions than answers. st. basil refers to st. athanasius as "your excellency," which makes me think that athanasius had an official role of authority in the church. was he a bishop? are there any secular authorities that are afforded this greeting? if not, why use this type of greeting? was it one used often in that time period to show respect? answers to these questions will reveal much about the nature of the letter, but i don't have time to do the research myself.

your second possible explanation for the words "as to the head" seems very plausible to me.

despite all this, i don't see how this rules out the authority of the papacy. even if st. basil did happen to respect someone else more than pope, so what? i would imagine similar examples can be found today. however, this does not take away from the fact that the overwhelming majority of the fathers fully recognized the authority of the papacy and gave the pope great respect (for proof of this, go here.

i hope this helps........pax christi,

phatcatholic

[Aloysius]

alright, i've thought a lil bout it.

i think ST. Athanasius was some sort of bishop, i'm not quite sure.

anyway, I'd say St. Athanasius is like the commander and chief of the forces fighting the Arian Heresy. He's the head and cheif of the evangilization of these heretics. It's comparable to St. Peter and St. Paul. St. Paul is the head and cheif of the evangelization of all the gentiles, while St. Peter is the pillar holding down the fort, so to speak. not to say he doesn't evangelize, but his main role is to be the leader in Christian doctrine.

so St. Basil The Great is therefore adressing the general of Christ's army against the arian heresy. He does not concede his Apostolic Authority as successor to Peter to hold the Church up. He's the cheif human in charge of stewarding the Kingdom, while St. Athanasius is the cheif human in charge of spreading the Kingdom. St. Basil The Great is the rock pillar holding down the fort, while St. Athanasius is the cheif of evangalization of gentiles. "Head and cheif of all", the all is all of the world, especially the arian heresy.

does that help? :cool:

[PhatPhred]

St. Athanasius was the Patriarch of Alexandria. At that time, there were three Patriarchates in the Church: Rome, Antioch, and Alexandria.

[Aloysius]

yeah, but we all know that Rome has always had the final say, so i was showin how that fits in.

as a patriarch, though, he IS a bishop, and as patriarch "your excellency" is a good term of respect for Pope St. Basil the Great to have used.

[PhatPhred]

St. Basil the Great wasn't the Pope; he was the Bishop of Caesarea, which was a very important See of the time.

[Aloysius]

wait, he wasn't the Bishop of Rome?

then what's the big controversy? :huh:

[phatcatholic]

i think the proposed "controversy" is that st. basil is giving more respect to st. athanasius then he is giving to the pope.............but i don't see that, as i illustrated in my previous post.