The "Israel" you don't see on TV

[stephen]

[quote name='rightwingofchrist' post='1035845' date='Aug 1 2006, 08:36 PM']
Stephen from what ive that youve said you sound like a national socialist
[/quote]


Thanks for sharing your opinion, as inaccurate and unsubstantiated as it may be.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='stephen' post='1035854' date='Aug 1 2006, 06:57 PM']
This is sophistry. [/quote]

Hezbollah is not Lebanon, period.

Yes I know, Hezbollah is a cancer in Lebanon.

[quote name='stephen' post='1035854' date='Aug 1 2006, 06:57 PM']
Perhaps if your reasoning is reversed you will understand.

Baruch Goldstein, a charter member of the "Jewish" terrorist group, the "Jewish Defense League" entered the Ibrahimi Mosque at Hebron's Machpela Cave, on Purim 1994 carrying an automatic rifle. He opened fire on the defenseless Muslim Palestinian men and boys praying therein slaughtering 40 of them.

Now, does the criminal act of aggression of this "Jewish" terrorist thug open the entire US--where the Jewish Defense League is based--to vengeance from the Palestinians? Somehow I imagine you would say not. How about maybe just the state of California, or the city of Los Angeles?

BTW, Baruch Goldstein is regarded to be a saint among many pious Orthodox "Jews" in the Israeli state for his "saintly" massacre of innocent Palestinian civilians.
[/quote]

Your still trying to lump all Jews together, and you have still failed to show where Mitchell G. Bard lied about JPII as to the part I "copied and posted" which I forgot to give him credit.


From Wiki

[quote]Response to the Hebron massacre.

[b][u]Israel[/u]

Goldstein's actions were immediately condemned by the Israeli government, the mainstream Israeli parties and the Israeli populace in general. Spokespeople for all the organized denominations of Judaism denounced his act as immoral and as terrorism. The Kach movement, to which he belonged, was outlawed. The victims of the shooting received financial compensation.

In an address to the Knesset, Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin denounced the US-born Goldstein as a "foreign implant" and an "errant weed." He continued, "We say to this horrible man and those like him: you are a shame on Zionism and an embarrassment to Judaism." Binyamin Netanyahu, head of the Likud party declared, "This was a despicable crime. I express my unequivocal condemnation."

A poll of 500 Israeli adults for the International Centre for Peace in the Middle East found that [color="#FF0000"]78.8 percent of people condemned the Hebron massacre[/color] while 3.6 percent praised Goldstein.[/b]

Jewish diaspora

In Britain the Chief Rabbi Dr. Jonathan Sacks stated "Such an act is an obscenity and a travesty of Jewish values. That it should have been perpetrated against worshippers in a house of prayer at a holy time makes it a blasphemy as well." He continued, "Violence is evil. Violence committed in the name of God is doubly evil. Violence against those engaged in worshipping God is unspeakably evil." [6]

An editorial in The Jewish Chronicle written by Chaim Bermant denounced the Kach organisation to which Goldstein belonged as "Neo-Nazis" and an U.S. creation, funded by American money and a product of American gun culture.[7] The same edition also reported that some liberal synagogues in the UK had begun fund-raising for Goldstein's victims.

On the other hand, there were also articles and letters in the U.S. Jewish press stating that Baruch Goldstein "pre-emptively struck, thus saving many Jewish lives." [8]


Arab protests

Numerous demonstrations, some violent, occurred across countries in the Middle-East and world. At one such protest in Amman, Jordan, 77-year-old British tourist Howard Long was stabbed by Palestinian protestors. The attacker, Khalid Husni Al-Korashi, was subsequently arrested and the Jordanian Interior Ministry called for its citizens to show calm and restraint in their response.[9]

Hamas

On March 7, Hamas threatened suicide attacks against Jewish settlers unless the settlements of Ariel, Kedumim, Qiryat Arba, Tekoa and Gush Katif were evacuated. Bus bombings were carried out on April 6 in Afula, and on April 13 in Hadera. [4]

New York

On March 1, 1994, Lebanese born Rashid Baz, armed with a Glock 9-millimeter semi-automatic pistol and a 9-millimeter Cobray machine gun, shot at a van full of Hasidic Jewish rabbinical seminary students on the Brooklyn Bridge.[9] Four students were injured in the attack, two seriously with gunshot wounds to the head. Ari Halberstam, a sixteen year old, died of his wounds four days later. While under arrest, Baz confessed to the shootings and was subsequently convicted of second-degree murder. He was sentenced to 141 years in prison. Although he stated the motive for the shooting was "road rage," a later report by Federal authorities described the shootings as "the crimes of a terrorist." Shortly before the attack, Baz attended the Islamic Center of Bay Ridge, whose imam frequently incited anti-Semitism and called for the support of groups such as Hamas. At Baz' trial, it was revealed that the imam told those in attendance, "This [attack] takes the mask off the Jews. It shows them to be racist and fascist and as bad as the Nazis. Palestinians are suffering from the occupation, and it’s time to end it." [10][/quote]

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='stephen' post='1035854' date='Aug 1 2006, 06:57 PM']
Baruch Goldstein, a charter member of the "Jewish" terrorist group, the "Jewish Defense League" entered the Ibrahimi Mosque at Hebron's Machpela Cave, on Purim 1994 carrying an automatic rifle. He opened fire on the defenseless Muslim Palestinian men and boys praying therein slaughtering 40 of them.[/quote]

Baruch Goldstein was a terrorist and the Israeli goverment declared him as so... 78.8 percent of Israeli people, 78.8 percent, condemned Goldsteins terroists actions.

[quote name='stephen' post='1035854' date='Aug 1 2006, 06:57 PM']
Now, does the criminal act of aggression of this "Jewish" terrorist thug open the entire US--where the Jewish Defense League is based--to vengeance from the Palestinians? Somehow I imagine you would say not. How about maybe just the state of California, or the city of Los Angeles?[/quote]

I do believe the terroist attack by Goldstein will lead Palestinians/Muslims to want to take vengeance on the whole of America. After all many of the Palestinians did dance in the streets on 9/11. As to the J.D.L. by your same logic sence it is said that Mohammed married a 6 yr old girl does that make all of Isam child abusers? NO, THE ACTIONS OF ONE MAN DO NOT beaver dam THE WHOLE OF A GROUP OF PEOPLE!

[quote name='stephen' post='1035854' date='Aug 1 2006, 06:57 PM']
BTW, Baruch Goldstein is regarded to be a saint among many pious Orthodox "Jews" in the Israeli state for his "saintly" massacre of innocent Palestinian civilians.
[/quote]

SOME, Some jews see him as a "saint" some. The majority do not, and instead see him for the terrorist that he was.

[stephen]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1035874' date='Aug 1 2006, 09:30 PM']

Your still trying to lump all Jews together, [/quote]

This is a lie.

I make reference to specific events and parties and I provide clear documentation.


[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1035874' date='Aug 1 2006, 09:30 PM']... and you have still failed to show where Mitchell G. Bard lied about JPII as to the part I "copied and posted" which I forgot to give him credit.[/quote]

This is another lie. I did not accuse Bard of lying. I called attention to the fact that you used him, a Zionist propagandist ,as a source of information for a Catholic pope when there are countless Catholic sources that could be used.


[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1035874' date='Aug 1 2006, 09:30 PM']From Wiki
[/quote]

Oh, wait a minute, I'll go change it ...

Does anyone really take wikipedia seriously? I certainly don't.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='stephen' post='1035921' date='Aug 1 2006, 08:15 PM']
This is a lie.[/quote]

I'm sorry "Zionist"


[quote name='stephen' post='1035921' date='Aug 1 2006, 08:15 PM']
I make reference to specific events and parties and I provide clear documentation.[/quote]

You ceritainly post alot of news articles, I'll give you that. But clear documentation, no, you have not.

[quote name='stephen' post='1035921' date='Aug 1 2006, 08:15 PM']
This is another lie. I did not accuse Bard of lying. I called attention to the fact that you used him, a Zionist propagandist ,as a source of information for a Catholic pope when there are countless Catholic sources that could be used.[/quote]

So he was telling the truth, and all you can do is whine "Zionist propagandist" weak....

[quote name='stephen' post='1035921' date='Aug 1 2006, 08:15 PM']
Oh, wait a minute, I'll go change it ...
[/quote]

Go try, and I bet in no time they'll take down you revisions for being anti-semetic.

[quote name='stephen' post='1035921' date='Aug 1 2006, 08:15 PM']
Does anyone really take wikipedia seriously? I certainly don't.
[/quote]

Does anyone take you seriously? I pray not.

[stephen]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1035919' date='Aug 1 2006, 10:11 PM']
After all many of the Palestinians did dance in the streets on 9/11. [/quote]

[quote][size=3][b]Five Israelis were seen filming as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001[/b][/size]

THERE was ruin and terror in Manhattan, but, over the Hudson River in New Jersey, [b]a handful of men were dancing.[/b] As the World Trade Centre burned and crumpled, the five men celebrated and filmed the worst atrocity ever committed on American soil as it played out before their eyes.

Who do you think they were? Palestinians? Saudis? Iraqis, even? Al-Qaeda, surely? Wrong on all counts. [b]They were Israelis [/b] – and at least two of them were Israeli intelligence agents, working for Mossad, the equivalent of MI6 or the CIA.

[url="http://www.sundayherald.com/37707"]http://www.sundayherald.com/37707[/url][/quote]



[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1035919' date='Aug 1 2006, 10:11 PM']As to the J.D.L. by your same logic sence it is said that Mohammed married a 6 yr old girl does that make all of Isam child abusers? ![/quote]

No, but a strong argument could be made for all rabbinic mohels being sexually abusive of baby boys.

[quote]... Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer gave herpes to a baby through the practice of metzizah b'peh - in which the rabbi uses his mouth to smell of elderberries blood from the circumcision wound. The baby later died...

[url="http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/336689p-287485c.html"]http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/336689p-287485c.html[/url][/quote]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1035919' date='Aug 1 2006, 10:11 PM'] NO, THE ACTIONS OF ONE MAN DO NOT beaver dam THE WHOLE OF A GROUP OF PEOPLE![/quote]


And the actions of one small group do not condemn an entire nation of people either.

So, then why is Lebanon being bombed into the stone age?

[SirMyztiq]

Israel is the US' puppy dog and the root of all problems in the middle east. I say let them fight each other and whomever wins gets to keep the land.

Speaking of hating Jews...

Guess who came out of the closet...

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Actor-director Mel Gibson apologized Tuesday for making anti-Semitic remarks during his drunken driving arrest last week, saying the comments were "blurted out in a moment of insanity."

Gibson's second apology in the case came as inTouch Weekly published pictures it said were from the night of the arrest. According to The Associated Press, witnesses said Gibson had been drinking at a Malibu beachfront restaurant called Moonshadows before his car was stopped.

"There is no excuse, nor should there be any tolerance, for anyone who thinks or expresses any kind of anti-Semitic remark," Gibson said in a statement issued by his publicist. "I want to apologize specifically to everyone in the Jewish community for the vitriolic and harmful words that I said to a law enforcement officer the night I was arrested on a DUI charge." (Watch a new apology from Gibson -- 1:30)

In the statement, Gibson said, "Please know from my heart that I am not an anti-Semite. I am not a bigot." (Read the full statement.)

Gibson, the director of 1995's Oscar-winning "Braveheart" and 2004's controversial "The Passion of the Christ," was picked up by Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies early Friday with a blood-alcohol level of 0.12 percent, the department said. California's legal limit is 0.08.

During his arrest, Gibson asked the arresting deputy whether he was a Jew and said, "F---ing Jews. The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world," according to a sheriff's report obtained by the entertainment Web site TMZ.com. (Watch reaction to Gibson's alleged "f------ Jews" remark -- 3:00)

Gibson faced accusations of anti-Semitism during the publicity storm that surrounded "The Passion of the Christ," which the Anti-Defamation League said portrayed Jews as "bloodthirsty" and "evil." But in Tuesday's statement, he said, "Hatred of any kind goes against my faith.

"I am a public person, and when I say something, either articulated and thought out, or blurted out in a moment of insanity, my words carry weight in the public arena," he said. "As a result, I must assume personal responsibility for my words and apologize directly to those who have been hurt and offended by those words."

Hollywood speculated about the fallout from Gibson's reported anti-Semitic and sexist remarks from Friday's arrest. (Watch how the incident could affect Gibson's career -- 1:54)

Gibson has a Mayan-language film called "Apocalypto" due later this year, and his film company, Icon Productions, had been producing a mini-series set during the Holocaust for ABC. The television network announced Tuesday that it was dumping that project.

"Given that it's been nearly two years and we have yet to see the first draft of a script, we have decided to no longer pursue this project with Icon," the network announced. But ABC's corporate parent, Disney, said "Apocalypto" remains in post-production and is scheduled for release in December.

Gibson denied his apology was meant to limit any career damage.

"This is not about a film, nor is it about artistic license," he said. "This is about real life and recognizing the consequences hurtful words can have. It's about existing in harmony in a world that seems to have gone mad."

Members of the Jewish community greeted Gibson's most recent statement favorably.

"We are glad that Mel Gibson has finally owned up to the fact that he made anti-Semitic remarks, and his apology sounds sincere. We welcome his efforts to repair the damage he has caused," Abraham H. Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League, told The Associated Press. "Once he completes his rehabilitation for alcohol abuse, we will be ready and willing to help him with his second rehabilitation to combat this disease of prejudice."

"I welcome his words. And I hope and pray that they are sincere and heartfelt," but Gibson needs to show "tangible actions" of repentance, Rabbi Mark S. Diamond of the 280-member Board of Rabbis of Southern California told the AP.

"I don't want to minimize for a moment the hurt and anger, the anguish, his words have created in our community," he said.
Reviewing the case

Meanwhile, an independent review board has found the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department handled Gibson's drunken driving arrest "in accord with its policies and practices," but it is still looking into whether a deputies' report on the incident was sanitized, the board's chief lawyer said Tuesday.

Michael Gennaco, the top lawyer for the Office of Independent Review, said he has "no reason to doubt" that all the details of Gibson's arrest would be presented to the district attorney's office for possible charges. But he said investigators were still trying to determine whether the actor's "inflammatory" comments were placed in a separate, supplemental document "to shield some of that report not from the DA, but from the public realm."

Sheriff's deputies originally reported Gibson was arrested "without incident." The department later explained that the term meant no force was used. Asked about that account, Gennaco said, "I'm not sure I would have used those words."

The Sheriff's Department has previously denied that Gibson -- who has participated in a department charity that provides aid to the children of slain sheriff's deputies -- received any special treatment. Though Gibson was not handcuffed, as DUI suspects frequently are, "There is some discretion given to the deputies on that," Gennaco said.

Gibson was released after posting $5,000 bond, and charges have not yet been filed. His publicist announced Monday that he is going into an "ongoing recovery program" to battle alcoholism -- and Tuesday, he said he wants to meet with Jewish leaders to help him "discern the appropriate path for healing."

"I am in the process of understanding where those vicious words came from during that drunken display, and I am asking the Jewish community, whom I have personally offended, to help me on my journey through recovery," the statement continued.

"Again, I am reaching out to the Jewish community for its help. I know there will be many in that community who will want nothing to do with me, and that would be understandable. But I pray that that door is not forever closed."



[url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/08/01/gibson.dui/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/08/....dui/index.html[/url]


Ohh, Alcohol...the best truth syrum in the world.

[KnightofChrist]

So I guess you have no more to say about Bard, you wish to stand by your weak response?


[quote]Five Israelis were seen filming as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001

THERE was ruin and terror in Manhattan, but, over the Hudson River in New Jersey, a handful of men were dancing. As the World Trade Centre burned and crumpled, the five men celebrated and filmed the worst atrocity ever committed on American soil as it played out before their eyes.

Who do you think they were? Palestinians? Saudis? Iraqis, even? Al-Qaeda, surely? Wrong on all counts. They were Israelis – and at least two of them were Israeli intelligence agents, working for Mossad, the equivalent of MI6 or the CIA.

[url="http://www.sundayherald.com/37707"]http://www.sundayherald.com/37707[/url][/quote]

Wow what a crazy conspiracy theory.

[quote name='stephen' post='1035930' date='Aug 1 2006, 08:30 PM']
No, but a strong argument could be made for all rabbinic mohels being sexually abusive of baby boys.
[/quote]

You know if you told me "Zionist break inside your house at night and eat your children" I wouldnt be surpised at all.

But Anyhoos...

[quote]From an [url="http://www.rabbis.org/news/030105.cfm"]RCA press release[/url]:

Based upon a careful study of the available halachic and scientific literature, as well as a review of sanctioned practice by numerous reliable Torah authorities past and present, it is the position of the RCA that the requirement of Metzitzah is fulfilled completely and unambiguously by the use of oral suctioning through a tube, as practiced by many mohelim in our communities. Therefore, according to this viewpoint, the use of such a tube is not only permissible, but is preferred (instead of direct oral contact) to eliminate any unintentional communication of infectious diseases. This protects both the mohel and the newly circumcised child.

An additional reason to encourage the use of a tube to fulfill the requirements of Metzitzah is that we not discourage less committed Jewish men and women from observing ritual circumcision (and possibly other Jewish rituals). Indeed, even some authorities who otherwise require Metzitzah be’Peh via direct oral contact, sanction a tube if that is the only way that the parents of a child would observe the mitzvah of Bris Milah.

In light of the above, the RCA urges its member rabbis, their congregants, synagogues and institutions, as well as the larger Jewish community, to encourage and where possible necessitate, that Metzitzah be’Peh be fulfilled via a tube.[/quote]


[quote name='stephen' post='1035930' date='Aug 1 2006, 08:30 PM']
And the actions of one small group do not condemn an entire nation of people either.[/quote]

It is sad that Hezbollah doesnt know what we do, Hezbollah condemning their own countrymen like that, its sad.

[quote name='stephen' post='1035930' date='Aug 1 2006, 08:30 PM']
So, then why is Lebanon being bombed into the stone age?
[/quote]

Well, Hezbollah is being attack justly by Israel, and Hezbollah is unjustly using the people of Lebanon as sheilds.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='musturde' post='1035660' date='Aug 1 2006, 02:42 PM']
No I mean Israel told them to leave beforehand, as in, probably a couple of days before. Hezbollah has been known to shoot people leaving the south (which is why I feared my family in the south would never escape). This is mostly to keep civilians in so Israel won't bomb the south to pieces. They're afraid of upsetting the UN.
[/quote]


Oh, I see ok. Thats even more time that what I had thought. Hezbollah probably does shoot people trying to escape, why else would people stay in a attacked building for 7 hours untill it fell, first thing they'd do is get out. I'm sorry I missed your reply untill now...

[stephen]

Dear "Knight,"

Your apologia for the disgusting and perverse rabbinic bris (circumcision) ritual--in which the rabbi smells of elderberries blood from the infant's circumcision wound on it's penis with his mouth--has placed the last piece of the puzzle in place.

I understand your "knighthood" completely now.

Thanks for playing.

For the information of everyone else, the Old Testament Patriarchs [i]did not[/i] engage in this disgusting practice. This is just one of the many examples of how rabbinic Judaism is a perverted twisting of the Old Testament religion, and how blasphemous it is to claim that Christianity is rooted in the depraved rabbinic tradition.



[quote][size=3][b]Lebanese Red Cross Repeatedly Targeted [/b] [/size]

by Dahr Jamail

TYRE, Lebanon - Israeli warplanes have attacked the Lebanese Red Cross repeatedly, members of the medical aid group say.

"The night of July 23, we were called to rescue a family whose home was bombed," Kassem Shaulan, a 28-year-old medic with the Lebanese Red Cross in Tyre told IPS. "Just as I finished loading the three injured people in my ambulance, it was struck by a rocket and all of us were injured."

The ambulance, now parked outside of the Red Cross headquarters in this coastal city, had a hole through the center of the red cross painted on its roof. The inside was heavily damaged and pieces of the metal frame of the van hung limply, riddled with shrapnel holes.

The Red Cross worker had several wounds on his body and stitches on his chin and leg. He said he could not hear very well any more.

"There was an old man on a stretcher in the ambulance who lost his leg from the bomb," Shaulan said. "And a child with us is now in coma. The third person is critically injured."

Shaulan, who has worked with the Red Cross for 13 years, is also training manager at the headquarters. He said that minutes after his ambulance was bombed, another ambulance nearby that was collecting injured people was also bombed.

Nobody seems to feel safe anywhere any more. During the brief letup in air strikes after Israel's disastrous strike on a shelter in Qana that killed at least 60 civilians – more than half of them children – villagers are fleeing their homes in southern Lebanon by the tens of thousands.

The United Nations World Food Program and other relief agencies have been working tirelessly to take advantage of the short window to ferry truckloads of aid to stranded civilians.

The brief halt also revealed more death and destruction. Members of the Lebanese Red Cross in Tyre told IPS that their rescue workers retrieved more than 30 bodies from destroyed homes, streets, cars, gardens, and ditches as they began their search. They continued to receive calls about the dead and injured from villages throughout the south.

Shaulan said his headquarters had received calls from Qana pleading for rescue assistance at 5 a.m. on the morning of the Israeli strike. The shelter was bombed at 1 a.m.

"Immediately after we got the call, we took three ambulances and headed to Qana," he said. "But three bombs nearly hit our first ambulance, so we turned back."

They attempted to head out to Qana a second time, but again their ambulances were attacked, and they returned to base. "They were keeping us away," Shaulan said. They succeeded a third time, just before 9 a.m.

"You can see here that everyone the Israelis are attacking are civilians and the Red Cross," Shaulan said. "And now we are having trouble reaching villages to collect bodies because they've bombed most of the roads and bridges before they told people to leave their homes."

Mohammad Zatar, who has been working for the Lebanese Red Cross in Tyre since 1993, said he had never before seen attacks on rescue workers.

"As a Red Cross volunteer, I need to be very clear that we are not political – we rescue anyone who needs help," the 32-year-old Zatar told IPS. As a colleague unloaded bodies from bloody stretchers, Zatar said "whether they are civilian, a resistance fighter or an Israeli soldier, our policy is to help any human who needs help. But the Israelis seem to be attacking us now."

Zatar said that most of the bodies they were picking up were of women and children. "Sometimes we pick younger or middle-aged men, but that is uncommon."

Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz told the Israeli Parliament Monday that Israel plans to "expand and strengthen" its attack against Hezbollah. "It's forbidden to agree to an immediate cease-fire," he said.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said there would be no cease-fire, and that Israeli forces will continue fighting from the air and sea and on the ground in Lebanon.

[url="http://www.antiwar.com/jamail/?articleid=9462"]http://www.antiwar.com/jamail/?articleid=9462[/url] [/quote]

Edited August 2, 2006 by stephen

[stephen]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1035962' date='Aug 1 2006, 11:17 PM']

Hezbollah condemning their own countrymen like that, its sad.[/quote]

Blaming other parties for the consequences of one's own actions is not Catholic. It's Talmudic.

Lebanese civilians are being killed by Israeli bombs, period.


[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1035962' date='Aug 1 2006, 11:17 PM']Well, Hezbollah is being attack justly by Israel, [/quote]

The Israeli state is practically razing the nation of Lebanon unjustly. That's why the action was condemned by the Vatican and an immediate cessation was called for. The Israeli aggression against Lebanon is only 'just" according to the rabbis, whom your morality bears a striking resemblance to.

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1035962' date='Aug 1 2006, 11:17 PM']... and Hezbollah is unjustly using the people of Lebanon as shields.
[/quote]

First of all, the Israelis use human shields themselves as I've already shown, so the Israelis have no claim to the high ground here or anywhere else. They're hypocrites, as usual.

And it's been as clearly established as it is possible to do that the Israelis kill civilians without a second's hesitation as a matter of policy and in practice.

How can the innocent civilians of Lebanon be said to be [i]shields[/i] when the Israelis bomb them without blinking an eye? Arab civilians are the worst thing one could possibly use to shield themselves from Israeli bombs.

Enough of this nonsense. It's an intellectually dishonest post facto excuse for killing innocent civilians.

Edited August 2, 2006 by stephen

[Anomaly]

[quote name='stephen' post='1036105' date='Aug 2 2006, 12:28 AM']
Blaming other parties for the consequences of one's own actions is not Catholic. It's Talmudic.

...

Enough of this nonsense. It's an intellectually dishonest post facto excuse for killing innocent civilians.[/quote]
Glad you brought that up, stephen.

I agree that Isreal does not have the moral athority to be pursuing the war with the scope of violence it's using.

I am also of the opinion that Hezbollah does not have the moral athority to be pursuing the war with the scope of violence it's using.

It is YOUR intelectual dishonesty and YOUR application of "Talmudic" philosophy that supports your defending Hezbollah's vilence by claiming it is the solely the consequence of Isreal that Hezbollah retaliates for violence with violence.

Hezbollah is equally (not more, not less) culpable as Isreal for the coninuation of the violence. Note, it's the 'continuation', I'm not assigning cuplability for who started it, but who is contributing to it's continuation that sees more civillian deaths than military deaths on both sides.

[musturde]

[quote name='stephen' post='1035673' date='Aug 1 2006, 04:05 PM']
Isn't 800+ dead and 3200+ wounded civilians in 3 weeks plus the 20,000 civilians killed during the last occupation enough evidence that the Israelis aren't the slightest bit deterred by innocent civilians?
[/quote]

Well my family who was down there was telling us they were shooting people leaving. They are afraid of killing too many innocent civilians. I can not see how this is not blatently obvious. They [b]are[/b] warning people before the blasts. I don't like it when people who have extreme agendas for the Israeli nation or against it. They are concerned now because of international pressure. Honestly, i'm sure you'll agree, Israel could destroy all of Lebanon in three days if it wanted to. They're not doing that because the whole world is calling for a ceasefire and because it's not in their interest to kill nonHezbollah members (they would lose the support of the LF, the Future movement, the Party of the Ceders, and the PSP).

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='musturde' post='1035665' date='Aug 1 2006, 04:44 PM']
Stephen, there has to be a reason why you don't like Israel. Do you just not like them on your own judgement? Are you part of a political group that doesn't like them? I'm just interested in knowing. Usually Catholics in America support Israel... to my knowledge at least.
[/quote]

So what is your opinion on the fighting - you are the only one here qualified to have an opinion

[musturde]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1036134' date='Aug 2 2006, 06:51 AM']
So what is your opinion on the fighting - you are the only one here qualified to have an opinion
[/quote]

Hezbollah has been teasing Israel for the longest time. They recently kidnapped two soldiers and killed three others. Whether they were just waiting for an excuse to attack Hezbollah or not, they were justified. They've been attacking mostly areas where Hezbollah is in. Hezbollah fires rockets from places like mosques. They even fired from Ayn Ibil (the Christian village in that area) against the consent of its people. Hezbollah had no right to declare war on Israel. By doing that, it plunged us into war. Hezbollah should have known, as any idiot would, that such actions it has taken would have led to a war. I honestly think they knew this. Iran and Syria support and control Hezbollah. There are soo many reasons I can think of this starting. One reason, Syria trying to reassurt influence on Lebanon. Another is Iran getting more power in Lebanon and using the conflict as an excuse to keep building its nuclear weapons. Israel isn't stupid in it's tactics. Although its hitting places that seem weird at first, they turn out to be places Hezbollah are using. One example is when they bombed the army headquarters and killed some Lebanese soldiers. It turns out they were was passing Hezbollah information. This one person who fled from the south in his car, joined ranks with Hezbollah. He was car bombed a few days after this. People make it that Israel is either too bad or too great. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. They have underground networks and are a very complex organization. They're not stupid either. They try to go around areas which contain civilians or something you wouldn't expect to be bombed. That way, if it is bombed, it's all over the news and Israel loses support and looks like a bad guy. Hezbollah needs to disarm. I was watching the conflict day by day in Lebanon with my aussie and Lebanese cousins. There are some Christians who support Hezbollah (Aounis...) but even they only want peace in the region. I believe out of the Sunnis, Shi'ites, Druze, and Christians, none of them actually want the war to continue. Everyone's afraid that a slight wrong move by anyone during this war could start another Civil War.