Devotional Attendance at Mass of SSPX

[Guest lollypop]

Could one assist at Masses celebrated by priests of the Society of St Pius X for [i]devotional[/i] purposes, [i]irregularly[/i]? Of course, keeping in mind one would not communicate and if it were a Sunday, it would not count towards one's Sunday obligation...

Edited August 4, 2006 by Lil Red

[Lil Red]

moving to TL

[Dave]

I wouldn't recommend it myself.

[thessalonian]

I've heard that many of their sermons bash the Novus Ordo and Catholicism so as Dave says, I wouldn't recommend it. Is there a parish in your area that has fraternity of St. Peter preists. These are loyal to the Magesterium and do latin masses.

[XIX]

An SSPX sermon could give you nightmares

[thessalonian]

Forgot, they also trash vatican II. The only way it might be justified is if you could not fullfill your sunday obligation otherwise.

Edited September 28, 2006 by thessalonian

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

I've read very little about this group other than that there was a contraversy with a Catholic bishop a few decades back who made ordinations that were against the will of the Roman bishop. What is the state of this group today with the Church at Rome? Do Catholics consider their consencrations valid?

[Era Might]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' post='1078267' date='Sep 28 2006, 05:49 PM']I've read very little about this group other than that there was a contraversy with a Catholic bishop a few decades back who made ordinations that were against the will of the Roman bishop. What is the state of this group today with the Church at Rome? Do Catholics consider their consencrations valid?[/quote]
Their Bishops were excommunicated in 1988 by Pope John Paul II. See the Apostolic Letter "Ecclesia Dei". They remain excommunicated and in schism.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' post='1078267' date='Sep 28 2006, 06:49 PM']
Do Catholics consider their consencrations valid?
[/quote]
The consecrations are valid, but illicit. Archbishop Lefebvre had the ability but not the permission.

[kateri05]

where's the best place to get info (in an easily understandable form) on Lefebrve and SSPX? i'm doing a unit on ecumenism with my 7/8 graders and i'm like 98% positive that one of my kids goes to an SSPX church. i was planning on talking about the schism in class but i want to make sure that i'm 100% correct so that when i get, "well my parents belong to SSPX" i can be charitable but firmly certain about whether or not it is a heretical group.

argh, what an ugly situation. luckily, my behind is covered, because as teachers, we had to sign an oath of fidelity to the magisterium, so if its not with the magisterium, it must be wrong.....

[Era Might]

Try "More Catholic Than the Pope" by Patrick Madrid.

[Resurrexi]

You know, the offocial Vatican answer to the question says that people may attend SSPX Masses so long as they don't have a schismatic attitude or a desire to separate themselves from the Holy Roman Pontiff.

[Dave]

Not quite.

What follows is a correspondence with Una Voce America, and it appears on [url="http://sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id71.html"]http://sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id71.html[/url], complete with the webmaster's commentary:

[quote]Pontificia Commissio "Ecclesia Dei" January 18, 2003
Greetings in the Hearts of Jesus & Mary! There have been several inquiries about our letter of 27 September 2002. In order to clarify things, Msgr. Perl has made the following response.

Oremus pro invicem.

In cordibus Jesu et Mariæ,
Msgr. Arthur B. Calkins

Msgr. Camille Perl's response:

Unfortunately, as you will understand, we have no way of controlling what is done with our letters by their recipients. Our letter of 27 September 2002, which was evidently cited in The Remnant and on various websites, was intended as a private communication dealing with the specific circumstances of the person who wrote to us. What was presented in the public forum is an abbreviated version of that letter which omits much of our pastoral counsel.

Since a truncated form of this letter has now become public, we judge it appropriate to present the larger context of our response.

In a previous letter to the same correspondent we had already indicated the canonical status of the Society of St. Pius X which we will summarize briefly here.

1.) The priests of the Society of St. Pius X are validly ordained, but they are suspended from exercising their priestly functions. To the extent that they adhere to the schism of the late Archbishop Lefebvre, they are also excommunicated.

2.) Concretely this means that the Masses offered by these priests are valid, but illicit i.e., contrary to the law of the Church.

Points 1 and 3 in our letter of 27 September 2002 to this correspondent are accurately reported. His first question was "Can I fulfill my Sunday obligation by attending a Pius X Mass" and our response was:

"1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X."

(Ed. Note: this last comment applies to whatever specific circumstances this person wrote to Rome about - as Msgr. Perl said above. It cannot be construed that Msgr. Perl is saying that anyone can fulfill his obligation through the SSPX for that is taking the comment out of context of the original communications which it appears Mr. Davies has done.)

His second question was "Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass" and we responded stating:

"2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."

(Ed. Note: Again, this comment (2) and the one below (3), have to be put in the context of the original messages which are not available to us. So we do not know why Msgr. Perl has made the statements which he did and, again, this cannot be taken as a blanket endorsement of attendance at Society Masses nor of any kind of support for the SSPX. The Church has warned the faithful that they cannot support the schism of the SSPX. This was specifically stated by the Holy Father in his motu proprio Ecclesia Dei (point 5C) when he said,

"In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfill the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church's law.
It is clear that those who patronize the Society stand to incur the penalty of excommunication - so says the supreme interpreter of Church law, an appeal from whose authority is not possible.)

His third question was: "Is it a sin for me to contribute to the Sunday collection a Pius X Mass" to which we responded:

"3. It would seem that a modest contribution to the collection at Mass could be justified."

Further, the correspondent took the Commission to task for not doing its job properly and we responded thus:

"This Pontifical Commission does not have the authority to coerce Bishops to provide for the celebration of the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal. Nonetheless, we are frequently in contact with Bishops and do all that we can to see that this provision is made. However, this provision also depends on the number of people who desire the 'traditional' Mass, their motives and the availability of priests who can celebrate it.

"You also state in your letter that the Holy Father has given you a 'right' to the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal. This is not correct. It is true that he has asked his brother Bishops to be generous in providing for the celebration of this Mass, but he has not stated that it is a 'right'. Presently it constitutes an exception to the Church's law and may be granted when the local Bishop judges it to be a valid pastoral service and when he has the priests who are available to celebrate it. Every Catholic has a right to the sacraments (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 843), but he does not have a right to them according to the rite of his choice."

We hope that this puts in a clearer light the letter about which you asked us.

With prayerful best wishes for this New Year of Our Lord 2003, I remain
Sincerely yours in Christ,
Rev. Msgr. Camille Perl Secretary[/quote]

I'd like to further explain a bit about Perl's statement that an SSPX Mass could, "in the strict sense," fulfill one's Sunday obligation. In the same way, a Greek Orthodox Divine Liturgy could, in the strict sense, fulfill one's Sunday obligation. But that would only be the case if there was no possible way for a person to attend a Catholic Mass, for example, if they were in Greece and it was impossible for them to find a Catholic church, whereas Greek Orthodox churches abound. However, at the same time, the person wouldn't be bound by the Sunday obligation. In the same way, the Church has said that Catholics may only attend SSPX Masses for truly grave reasons (e.g. the nearest Catholic parish in union with Rome is a really long distance away and one couldn't drive there without extreme difficulty).

Moreover, the Ecclesia Dei Commission said this in protocol N. 117/95:

[quote]2. The Masses [the SSPX] celebrate are also valid, but it is considered morally illicit for the faithful to participate in these Masses unless they are physically or morally impeded from participating in a Mass celebrated by a Catholic priest in good standing (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 844.2). The fact of not being able to assist at the celebration of the so-called "Tridentine" Mass is not considered a sufficient motive for attending such Masses.[/quote]

[goldenchild17]

SSPX Mass fulfills one's Sunday obligation, and if I'm not mistaken, one is allowed to partake of the Eucharist their as well. The community is currently in a state of being valid but illicit, meaning what they do (ie priestly ordinations, bishop consecrations, Mass etc.) are valid, but are sinful according to the rules of the Vatican. According to the Vatican, you are allowed to go to one of these Masses if you are unable to fulfill your Sunday Obligation elsewhere (see msgr Perl's answer posted by Dave). If you don’t agree with SSPX philosophy then it might be a good idea to not go to their Mass at all as, from what I’m told, they are not afraid to lay it on quite thick during homilies. I know for me it would not be good. I remember when I was still going to the Novus Ordo Mass and one of the priests was saying some very unorthodox things. Let’s just say my mind wasn’t exactly focused where it needed to be . I think that could happen in an SSPX parish as well, for those who aren’t in agreement with the community. Basically you can go if you are physically unable to go to another church that is not in schism with the Vatican, otherwise no. Does that answer your question?

p.s. if I am wrong on any of these points let me know.

Edited September 29, 2006 by goldenchild17

[Theoketos]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1078889' date='Sep 29 2006, 02:36 AM']


p.s. if I am wrong on any of these points let me know.
[/quote]

oreover, the Ecclesia Dei Commission said this in protocol N. 117/95:

QUOTE
2. [b]The Masses [the SSPX] celebrate are also valid, but [u]it is considered morally illicit for the faithful to participate in these Masses u[/u]nless they are physically or morally impeded from participating in a Mass celebrated by a Catholic priest in good standing (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 844.2). The fact of not being able to assist at the celebration of the so-called "Tridentine" Mass is not considered a sufficient motive for attending such Masses.[/b]