Trigod

[hyperdulia again]

seems appropriate.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

Asalaam alaykum, ayed. Ahlan wa sahlan.

The Trinity is a difficult concept for anyone to understand, no matter what religion they are, primarily because no one can ever 'understand' God. That would make Him lesser than us. But you are struggling to grasp the basic belief in the Trinity because you are trying to apply maths to God. You are also seeing Him as an object, a 'thing'. The 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 equation would only work if God were an object that could be counted, like a shoe or a loaf of bread or a book.

He's not like that. You must know that some Muslims call God 'Al-Wahid' while others say 'Al-Wihda' as well. The ones who call Him al-Wihda are closer to the Christian understanding of God. (For the benefit of all the people on here who don't know any Arabic, al-Wahid means 'the One'. Al-Wihda, which comes from the same root word, is more difficult to translate. It refers to all-encompassing oneness, the kind of unity Christians understand by the Trinity.)

The water analogy is the best one, although it's still not perfect. The liquid, the steam, and the ice - they all have exactly the same chemical make-up but a different shape. It is the same with the Trinity. There are no separate parts, no different gods. Just one.

The philosophical argument for the Trinity goes like this: a God of total love, al-Wadood, cannot exist in isolation. Love is not static. It exists as an action. It has to be expressed. Ancient Kabbalistic Jews tried to solve this problem by saying that God had created the world so that He would be able to express that love. But this explanation makes Him dependent on His creation. In reality, He doesn't need us for anything.

The theologian and priest Herbert McCabe once wrote, "The Holy Spirit is the delight that the Father has in the Son, and the Son in the Father." This is the purest understanding of the Trinity that I've ever seen in writing. God is a relationship. Only a Trinitarian understanding of God is in harmony with our shared belief in Him as all-powerful and all-loving.

I would also like to explain that by the words 'Father' and 'Son' we do NOT mean that the Father existed before Jesus and then had a child in the human sense. These words are used to describe the nature of their relationship, which is eternal and has always existed. I know that the use of these words can confuse non-Christians, especially as Christians take them for granted and don't explain what they mean by them. I had the same difficulty once: I used to live as a Muslim.

[Dismas]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1404751' date='Oct 18 2007, 10:07 AM']The philosophical argument for the Trinity goes like this: a God of total love, al-Wadood, cannot exist in isolation. Love is not static. It exists as an action. It has to be expressed. Ancient Kabbalistic Jews tried to solve this problem by saying that God had created the world so that He would be able to express that love. But this explanation makes Him dependent on His creation. In reality, He doesn't need us for anything.[/quote]

Indeed, as Christians and Muslims agree that God is perfect, the mystery of creation is essential.

If God is a solitude, as Islam teaches, and there is nothing existent but Him, then there is no impulse to create. God is already perfect and has no experience of anything to relate to, as there is nothing but God prior to Creation. As there is no relation, there can be no creative impulse, as anything that God were to conceive would only be Himself. God exists for eternity alone, and the universe would not be created. A perfect Solitude would indeed be a perfect impotence.

For Christians, God is one, yet also three persons. Here there is a creative dynamic, as God the Father perceives God the Son and God the Spirit. Any one Divine Person knows that there is an "Other", and loves that Other. In this view, a perfect love and rapport exists within this Triune God. As Christians believe that God is perfect love, and can be noticed by those of us mortals who have imperfect love, there is a yearning, a burning desire to give. This, this is a powerful creative impulse, one worthy of forming whole galaxies while doting over the smallest individual quarks, as a tapestry of unrivaled beauty.

As for the name of my God, it is "I Am Who Am". To this single name, all three Persons respond, as all three Persons are defined as such.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Dismas

[Mateo el Feo]

Just FYI, the thread is over 4 years old.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I did not notice the dates. Trust me for that. How did it get to the top again?

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1405033' date='Oct 18 2007, 08:31 PM']I did not notice the dates. Trust me for that. How did it get to the top again?[/quote]Blame hyper for the four-year old

[jeffpugh]

Hyper seems to be doing this a lot... oh well, it serves it's purpose. Cathoholic gave a great reply which I thoroughly benefited from (and any person who is Googling the web

Edited October 19, 2007 by Sacred Music Man

[hyperdulia again]

I bumped it because of nogodbutallah.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='ayed' post='9157' date='Jul 26 2003, 04:10 AM']How come it is ?
----------------------
1+1+1=1???
-----------------
Thanks for all[/quote]

Two assumptions made:
1/ God is infinite.
2/ Maths rocks.

-------------------

Consider this analogy. (some quick maths stuff though).

---------------------------
A set is a group of things in one place.
An element is something in a set.
So,

{cat, dog}

is a set containing two elements. One element is cat, and one element is dog.

---------------------------

Now,

Think of a set containing every single positive whole number, in ascending order.

{1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,...}

This contains and unending (i.e. infinite) number of elements. (as in, you never get to the end, as there will always be one bigger number you can add.)

Now, alternate three colours like so:

{[color="#FF0000"]1[/color],[color="#0000FF"]2[/color],[color="#00FF00"]3[/color],[color="#FF0000"]4[/color],[color="#0000FF"]5[/color],[color="#00FF00"]6[/color],[color="#FF0000"]7[/color],[color="#0000FF"]8[/color],[color="#00FF00"]9[/color],...}

Break up the set into 3 sets, each set containing it's own colour:

{[color="#FF0000"]1[/color],[color="#FF0000"]4[/color],[color="#FF0000"]7[/color],...}

{[color="#0000FF"]2[/color],[color="#0000FF"]5[/color],[color="#0000FF"]8[/color],...}

{[color="#00FF00"]3[/color],[color="#00FF00"]6[/color],[color="#00FF00"]9[/color],...}

-------------------------------

Here's the crux:

[b]Each of those sets are infinite[/b]. For each of those three sets, there is no maximal number that disallows adding another number. And, even more interestingly:
[b]Any one of those three single-coloured sets by themselves is the same size as the multicoloured set[/b]. Take the green set and the multicoloured set. In the multicoloured set, the 300[sup]th[/sup] element is 300. In the green set, the 300[sup]th[/sup] element is 900. Each element in the multicoloured set has an equivalent element in the green set And the blue set And the red set.

Therefore:

(1 x infinity) + (1 x infinity) + (1 x infinity) = (infinity) [depending on the infinity used]



So in cetain circumstances, 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 (if you like to think of it that way).


This is how my tiny brain contemplates the Trinity sometimes, it's just an analogy i'm not claiming it to be inerrant. But the maths is correct.

Edited October 19, 2007 by RandomProddy

[RandomProddy]

Please delete me i'm a double post.

Edited October 19, 2007 by RandomProddy

[Noel's angel]

[GodChaser]

[quote name='ayed' post='9157' date='Jul 25 2003, 09:10 PM']Hi all of phatmass pals here.
May I post such a question?I am sure of your dear responses .
My question is :
Trinity Doctrine :God , the Father , Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit.
The paralysing matter is that all of them only one God?
How come it is ?
----------------------
1+1+1=1???
-----------------
Thanks for all[/quote]
Intesting,

How about 1 to the power of 3, or 1*1*1=1!

How about atoms, (one object) which is made of three smaller objects, proton, neutron, and electron?

How about 93,000,000 miles away, divided by three equaling 31,000,000 miles, making the first two numbers 3 and 1!

Hmmmm!

[GodChild]

[quote name='jasJis' post='10472' date='Jul 30 2003, 06:53 AM']mustbenothing,
It is pointless to discuss this with you because you desire a God that the human mind can fully comprehend and define.

Scripture is clear that we cannot see the face of God or we will die. Even the angels in heaven have wings to cover their eyes as they sing of His Glory.[/quote]

Excuse me? Could you elaborate of this. This seems bizarre and strange since the beatific vision is the purpose of heaven? - or do we all wear blindfolds when we get to heaven?

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='GodChild' post='1407054' date='Oct 22 2007, 11:01 AM']Excuse me? Could you elaborate of this. This seems bizarre and strange since the beatific vision is the purpose of heaven? - or do we all wear blindfolds when we get to heaven? [/quote]

I think the image of angels veiling their sight is a poetic one, there to emphasise the beauty of His Face.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1405925' date='Oct 20 2007, 07:12 AM']How about 1 to the power of 3, or 1*1*1=1![/quote]

It implies dimensionality which does get difficult.

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1405925' date='Oct 20 2007, 07:12 AM']How about atoms, (one object) which is made of three smaller objects, proton, neutron, and electron?[/quote]

Modalism (?)