How Can I Fight This?

[BLAZEr]

I have an idea . . .kneel anyway . . .what are they gonna do, excommunicate you for kneeling?

[Aloysius]

if the Holy See says it's up to the country's bishops, and the country's bishops say it's up the the diocese's bishop, then it would be disobedient to do that. that would be rejecting Apostolic Authority. we show our obedience to God by obeying the Apostles, whoever accepts them accepts Christ, whoever rejects them rejects Christ.

even if we disagree, ppl in those diocese's must stand before our Lord instead of kneel. as long as that's what the Apostolic Authority tells us.

[Jake Huether]

Word.

And if your Bishop makes you stand, and Christ would rather have you kneel, then He won't be mad at you for obeying. The Bishop will be responsible.

Offer it up for the Souls in Purgatory.

[jasJis]

marielapin-  It is mandatory that some sign of reverence is shown....it can either be by bowing, by genuflecting, or by receiving on your knees.  You are allowed to do any of these three.  This is in the GIRM.

Yes. But where in the GIRM does it say it's your option to do whatever you want and not follow the instructions of the Priest, Deacon, Bishop, etc. and defeat the intent that we be one in posture?

[Aloysius]

Yes. But where in the GIRM does it say it's your option to do whatever you want and not follow the instructions of the Priest, Deacon, Bishop, etc. and defeat the intent that we be one in posture?

i guess i agree with that.

i just wish my parish would have the normal stance be kneeling. <_<

[cmotherofpirl]

Your Bishop should read this:

In the July 2003

BCL Newsletter...

Clarification on Posture of the Faithful Following Individual Reception of Holy Communion

During recent months, the Secretariat for the Liturgy has received numerous inquiries concerning the proper posture of the faithful after each communicant has individually received Holy Communion at Mass.

Many Bishops have directed that the appropriate posture of the faithful during the distribution of Holy Communion is to stand. They have based this on the text of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM), no. 431 which states that the people stand until the period of sacred silence following the reception of Holy Communion has begun. But when does this period of sacred silence begin? GIRM, no. 86 notes that “the singing [of the communion song] is continued for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful.” The period of sacred silence would seem to begin, therefore, once all have received Holy Communion; hence, the appropriate posture of the faithful during the distribution of Holy Communion is standing.

However, because of the widespread and longstanding practice of individuals returning to their places to kneel or sit in private prayer after having individually received Holy Communion, this provision has caused controversy in many dioceses.

In an effort to clarify the situation, Cardinal Francis George, O.M.I., Chairman of the Committee on the Liturgy, submitted a dubium concerning this matter to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments on May 26, 2003. On June 5, 2003, Cardinal George received the following response (Prot. n. 855/03/L) from Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments:

Dubium: In many places, the faithful are accustomed to kneeling or sitting in personal prayer upon returning to their places after having individually received Holy Communion during Mass. Is it the intention of the Missale Romanum, editio typica tertia, to forbid this practice?

Responsum: Negative, et ad mentem. The mens is that the prescription of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, no. 43, is intended, on the one hand, to ensure within broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation for the various parts of the celebration of Holy Mass, and on the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.

In the implementation of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, therefore, posture should not be regulated so rigidly as to forbid individual communicants from kneeling or sitting when returning from having received Holy Communion.

[BLAZEr]

there is no specified posture after communion, either kneeling or standing would be appropriate, and no, a Bishop cannot tell me what I have to do . . . especially if my conscience is telling me to kneel . . . there's a little attribute of Catholic theology that has been much misused and much maligned but conscience, a well formed one, can make these prudential decisions on its own . . .

And I will kneel, until the pope himself orders us not to.

[BLAZEr]

ANd what really chaps my butt is that the same people who are DEMANDING that their diocese fall in line with their Standing after communion carp are teh SAME people who were busy talking about how people can follow their conscience and use contraception . . .

Conscience cannot ever lead you to do something sinful . . .but it can lead you to do something devotional . . .

If I wanted to kneel down and pray during the Gospel rather than stand, I can do that . . . I just can't expect to make everyone else do it . . .

[BLAZEr]

We need to take a lesson from the Eastern rite church . . . they aren't as rigid about their postures . . . except that you kneel or profound bow during the consecration . . . much much easier

[cmotherofpirl]

"If I wanted to kneel down and pray during the Gospel rather than stand, I can do that . . . I just can't expect to make everyone else do it . . . "

however that would wrong because its not part of what the Church has asked us to do at that moment.

THat is different than a bishop imposing his own version of the GIRM. I am not bound to a bishop by orders, but to the universal Church.

Edited January 7, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[Aloysius]

:unsure: i donnoo..... St. Louis de Montfort when ordered by the Bishops of France not to preach in their dioceses obeyed, but went up to the Pope to get permission and then was able to be only answerable to the Chair of Peter. as far as i know, we're supposed to be faithful to the bishop as long as it doesn't contradict the doctrines of the Church. if it contradicts the disciplines of the Church, we may do what the disciplines of the whole Church personally, and the Bishop needs to change. If the Bishop does something that is within his apostolic authority, like, as far as i can tell, telling you to stand where it used to be the discipline to sit, we must accept his apostolic authority.

w/e though. i'm not gonna condemn any1 who disobeys the bishop by kneeling before the LORD. as long as they don't do it in blantant intentional disobedience or to get ppl to think they are some holy person who's better than them.

[cmotherofpirl]

Aloysius this is FROM Rome.

[Aloysius]

ook, srry, i got a lil confused around here.

i think we were originally talking about standing for the part where it says Behold the Lamb of God who takes a way the sins of the world till the part where it says Lord I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word and i shall be healed.

i'm a lil confused as to whether we're still talking about that part. cuz i thought it was established that for that part the GIRM gives Bishops the authority to decide how it's done in their parishes. i could be wrong though :ph34r:

i guess we shouldn't be so strict about postures... i donno though. i mean, just cause the eastern rites aren't, the whole difference between rites is the type of rituals they focus on and stuff. so, the Roman Rite seems to be supposed to have uniform posture.

[BLAZEr]

Actually, C-Mom, if I want to kneel down during the Gospel, for whatever reason, maybe I just got a deep down desire to do it this one time, or whatever . . . I CAN . . . that's the beauty of our Freedom . . .

Am I suggesting that this is the way the Gospel should be read? No, of course, not, but the rigidity in posture that we see in the United States is NOT true anywhere else in the world . . . and it's very, well, Germanic if you ask me . . . Heil Hiltler germanic . . .