How Can I Fight This?

[blank]

My priest is instituting a bunch of changes, handed down to him by our bishop. He claims these changes are from the newest edition of the GIRM, and will be instituted nationwide soon.

Some, I can live with because they add to the reverence given to Christ's Prescence in the Eucharist... like telling us it is now mandatory to bow before we receive Communion.

Other changes, I don't agree with, and don't think are actually in the new GIRM. I have a feeling our liberal bishop is just using the new GIRM as an excuse to push his agenda.

In particular, our priest now orders the congregation to remain standing for the entire Communion Rite. He told us we are not to kneel when we return to our seats, but rather remain standing in unison, in a show of community spirit.

Also, the pastoral assistant has begun standing during the Consecration, which leads a large part of the congregation to follow her lead. Our priest says nothing to remind them to kneel, but every mass repeats the importance of standing.

In the most civil and professional way, how can I fight this? It would be nice if some clergy from this forum could give me advice, to add relevancy. If any clergy message me, I could give them the contact information of my priest.

[aquamarine]

Here's a related article:

Mass Confusion

It's odd that the GIRM, which is about encouraging uniformity, has managed to give rise to such general sloppiness. If the point is uniformity, why have "options" that Bishops can play around with? Seems counterproductive to me.

Anyway, other parishes are apparently not pleased either.

[Ash Wednesday]

The more I think and read about all this, the more I want to start attending Latin Mass whenever possible. Even if it means driving 2 hours bimonthly!

[Tony]

At our parish, We also made the change to standing after Communion (and after our Father, during the "Behold, the Lamb of God" so it is in the new GIRM. We bow before reciving the Eucharist too.

I was uneasy about it, but the 1st time I remained standing after Communion, it seemed like it was fine to do, kind of like God telling me " Im ok with this"

[Norseman82]

**EDITED**

Get a copy of the current GIRM and find the relevant parts. Make sure they are in violation before taking any action. There are some new things (and some things that are not new but just now being publicized).

[jasJis]

Find out before you get upset if by your nature, you don't trust your priest or Bishop (and I think you need to really pray about that.) There is a link to the GIRM in the Reading Room above. It's also at the USCCB website. Print out the parts you have questions or concerns about and make an appointment with your priest. Approach him with these things as questions. Don't go to tell him he's wrong. Go with a heart that will be open to his explaination.

Our parish is pretty much up on the GIRM, but I have never, never, ever seen or heard of standing after communion. I attend a LifeTeen mass and I think there would be total disobedience to that. Many kids remain kneeling after the Tabernacle is closed and remain kneeling until we stand for the Final Blessing. It seems very irreverent, but hey, I'm open to being educated. I think I'll check out the GIRM myself on that one.

[jasJis]

Went to the GIRM, and this is what I found about posture after communion:

Movements and Posture

42. The gestures and posture of the priest, the deacon, and the ministers, as well as those of the people, ought to contribute to making the entire celebration resplendent with beauty and noble simplicity, so that the true and full meaning of the different parts of the celebration is evident and that the participation of all is fostered.52 Therefore, attention should be paid to what is determined by this General Instruction and the traditional practice of the Roman Rite and to what serves the common spiritual good of the People of God, rather than private inclination or arbitrary choice.

A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.

43. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while the priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Prayer of the Faithful; from the invitation, Orate, fraters (Pray, brethren), before the prayer over the offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated below.

They should, however, sit while the readings before the Gospel and the responsorial Psalm are proclaimed and for the homily and while the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory is taking place; and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.

In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.53

With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.

It seems that standing after Communion is very licit and is up to the Bishop. Keeping in mind the last paragraph, we should strive to be obedient to the directions given us. We can check the GIRM, and bring our concerns to the priest or Bishop, but they have the Authority and responsiblity. Now that you know where this came from, you can be the example and be ready to explain to those around you if they ask. :rolleyes:

Edited January 5, 2004 by jasJis

[blank]

jasJis thanks for the advice where to find copies of the GIRM.

As for not trusting my bishop, would you trust someone who is in open violation of the Pope? I could write a list of anti-Catholic things this guy is trying to push, but I'm trying to give him the benefit of a doubt, because I am just a fairly ignorant layperson. But the diocese I live in is known world-wide for being borderline schismatic.

I am very wary to even approach our priest with concerns such as this; I don't want to be labeled some sort of extremist. That's why I specifically asked for other clergy in the forum to help deal with it.

The powers that be have been slowly changing things for years in my diocese until the Catholic parts of the mass are indistinguishable from some Protestant services. How long am I to idly sit by while they tear down our core beliefs and replace them with secular humanism?

And if this turns out to be a legit change from the GIRM, I'll obey what the Church teaches. But for now, sadly, past experience tells me to take this change with a grain of salt.

Again, jasJis, thanks for your advice, and if I sound bitter or anything, rest assured it's not directed at you.

[Aloysius]

yeah, obediance is crucial, but it is possible to follow your bishop right out of the Church. that's why prudent obedience is neccessary, like check to make sure anything the bishop tells you to do isn't in disobedience to the Pope. if it is, that doesn't mean you don't follow the bishop (as long as this is a matter of discipline, if he preaches different doctrine obedience doesn't apply), you follow the bishop of course. but you let him know and attempt all possible means to get him to be more obedient. if necessary, you do what St. Louis de Montfort did when the Bishops were forbidding him to preach in their diocese, he had to obediently not do it, but he walked all the way to the pope and got a special thing that made him answerable only to the Chair of St. Peter, so he was above the bishops.

so, if you can't get him to be obedient you go higher and higher up the hierarchy, you just can't disobey your bishop on a matter of discipline which isn't the most important thing anyway.

[jasJis]

Bitter words don't bruise me.

Toughen up about being labeled. Bring your concerns to God and pray about it. If you feel deep in your heart where you converse with God that it is really that wrong, then you MUST say something. A label is the least of your worries.

You can confront with kindness and respect because your Bishop and your priest are recipients of God's special graces because of the nature of the Sacrament of Holy Orders. You MUST respect that.

You also are obliged to obey God.

We're humans, it isn't easy, and you, me, the Bishop, or the priest may mess it up. But God's Grace will preserve His Church and correct our wrongs. People are fallible, the Church isn't. No need to be bitter. Just be concerned and pray. God guides, we follow, but we aren't one-man-bands.

[the_rev]

It's so good these mass changes went into effect, it makes us more universal, doing all at the same mass! The same way.

[Donna]

Blank, I pray for you.

Pax Christe...

[Seatbelt Blue]

I feel like I live on Mars. Most of the things you all seem to be surprised is with is the only way I've ever known Mass. Granted, I've only been Catholic for three years, and I've never attended a mass outside my diocese, but we've always stood for the consecration, although we generally sit down when it's done, and kneel after we've recieved if there isn't anybody in front of us, or the person in front of us is kneeling (otherwise, you stick your face in the back of his or her head). So frankly, I'm more than a little confused as to what all the fuss is about. There hasn't even been a single mention of the new GIRM at either of my parishes (my home parish, Epiphany, and my dorm parish, Sacred Heart Cathedral).

I very much wonder just how much things are going to change once John Paul gives us our new bishop. I think that much of my confusion is due to the leadership of Bishop Sullivan (with whom I am personally acquainted; he lives right on Park, through which I walk every day to get to class, and I see him often), who has reigned for over thirty years here in Richmond. Perhaps he has been quite original with the liturgies around here, and, the way it sounds, almost prescient, as much of what is new to all of you is, simply, the way we have always done it here.

[marielapin]

I have attended Masses where the congregation stands after communion (for that is the way they do it in Europe- plus it is a licit postion), but I have never been to a Mass where you are told to stand during the consecration. That is in direct offense to the GIRM (see above). It looks as if something very simple and straightforward is often misinterpreted by the liturgists.

[marielapin]

Some, I can live with because they add to the reverence given to Christ's Prescence in the Eucharist... like telling us it is now mandatory to bow before we receive Communion.

It is mandatory that some sign of reverence is shown....it can either be by bowing, by genuflecting, or by receiving on your knees. You are allowed to do any of these three. This is in the GIRM.

In particular, our priest now orders the congregation to remain standing for the entire Communion Rite.  He told us we are not to kneel when we return to our seats, but rather remain standing in unison, in a show of community spirit.

As was said above, one may stand during the communtion rite only exept when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. I don't consider regular Mass to be a good reason, but that's just me. Standing after communion is licit.