Bruce S Posted January 5, 2004 Author Share Posted January 5, 2004 (edited) Do you know any Christians with tattoos? Some of the holiest and most faithful Christians I know have tattoos, many of them declaring or expressing their faith and devotion through it. I would like to get a tattoo, but not until I get married and my wife says it's okay. My body belongs to my spouse and she'll have to look at it every day. Anywho. I'm sick of seeing you (bruce s) so quick to judge people and grouping them into pathetically inaccurate stereotypes. First, go read what I WROTE, and the TEXT [in blue] I copied. Don't attributed quoted material to me, other than as material I found, and basically wanted discussion on...and the TOPIC is one I thought would be of interest. I understand Christians have tattoo's. That is the REASON the thread was started...duh. Now the QUESTION, isn't, "do Catholics HAVE tattoo's" It IS, why, and should they? Protestants have them too, with crosses and such, so this is NOT an US vs THEM thread. It is an attempt to understand the historical underpinnings, AND THINGS PEOPLE MAY NOT HAVE COMPLETELY UNDERSTOOD or thought about. OK? I guess you have tattoos and think I'm picking on 'ya...grin. Your fight is with the Bible, and historically the church, not me. Yell at them. Edited January 5, 2004 by Bruce S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 This is an ongoing debate on even the mainly protestant boards as well...it's not limited to the Catholics...please ease up on Bruce, Matty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mp15 Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I gotta admit, I kind of see the point Bruce is trying to make here. Tattooing in this day and age however is nothing more than a fad. For most people I kind of think they are being a bit narcissistic in getting them. Sorta like, "hey look at me and my cool tattoo." Now before those of you that have tattoos get your undies in a bunch, let me just say that I've already heard all I need to hear as to why you get them. I'm still not seeing the reasoning though. The simple fact is that you want to show them off. If your not showing them off (by keeping them covered), then what is the point in even getting them? But hey, it's your body I guess, do what you will. God did grant you the gift (or is it?) of free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookofjohn Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I would love to have a cross or a crucifix tattooed on my arm. And the reason for having my arm tattooed is because I would like to identify myself as a Christian and it would be good for my spirituality especially in public because others(even strangers) can hold me accountable as a Christian for my actions, and this motivates me to be a witness. What do you think, Bruce? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalscout Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I know that many of the Protestant ministers are trying to contain the current trend towards getting a tattoo. Personally, I think that this craze IS sort of one that Satan "might be" behind. I interact with many young people, years ago, the only people with tattoo's were bikers, convicts, and sailors, you NEVER saw a "normal woman" with one, never. Now I would estimate that 2/3'rds of young woman over the age of 20 have them. Why? Not to be goofy, but SERIOUSLY here, let's discuss the origin, history of, and current practice BEHIND the tatoo, and what the people pushing this craze themselves have to say about WHY they do tatoo's... Quoted.....from a good online site, excellent research on this.... "Ye worship ye know not what. . ." Jesus Christ, John 4:24 Throughout history the tattoo bears the mark of paganism, demonism, Ba'al worship, shamanism, mysticism, heathenism, cannibalism and just about every other pagan belief known. The tattoo has NEVER been associated with Bible Believing Christians. And whenever and wherever, in history Christianity appears – tattoos disappear. The only exception -- 20th century, lukewarm, carnal, disobedient, Laodicean Christians. The birth of the tattoo has always born the fruits of pagan religion and mysticism. Without exception, research after research, study after study, book after book, the roots of the tattoo never wavers. The following documentation is just a small (very small) drop of the ocean of research documenting the pagan and demonic source of the tattoo. Please remember. . . The following documentation is from pro-tattoo books simply documenting the obvious spiritual and religious link to the tattoo. These are not Christian writers trying to paint a negative portrait of the tattoo. No matter how much the carnal, rebellious, Christian desires to justify their perverse reasoning for "marking" themselves with the forbidden demonic tattoo, the facts are loud and clear, backed by tons of research and documentation by the leading pro-tattoo authorities on the planet – the foundation, origin, meaning and purposes of the tattoo is pagan demonism, shamanism, Baal worship, and occult mysticism. A tattooist in many cultures is also a shaman, magick-man, priest or priestess. According to the dictionary a shaman is a "intermediary between the natural and supernatural worlds, using magic to cure illness, foretell the future, control spiritual forces, etc." "Tattooing is often a magical rite in the more traditional cultures, and the tattooist is respected as a priest or shaman." (Michelle Delio, Tattoo: The Exotic Art of Skin Decoration, p. 73) "In Fiji, Fromosa, New Zealand and in certain of the North American Indian tribes, tattooing was regard as a religious ceremony, and performed by priests or priestesses." (Ronald Scutt, Art, Sex and Symbol, 1974, p. 64) "The actual tattooing process, which involved complex ritual and taboos, could only be done by priests and was associated with beliefs which were secrets known only to members of the priestly caste. . . Hambly concluded that historically tattooing had originated in connection with ancient rites of scarification and bloodletting which were associated with religious practices intended to put the human soul in harmony with supernatural forces and ensure continuity between this life and the next." (Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 158) Famous witch and author Laurie Cabot writes of the tattoo: "The origins of tattooing came from ancient magical practices. . . " (Laurie Cabot, Power of the Witch, cited in Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated by Dr. Cathy Burns, p. 301) "According to Amy Krakow in her chronicle The Total Tattoo Book, ‘tattooing has had well-defined roles: marking a rite of passage at a stage of life, calling the spirits, proudly, defiantly or sneaky showing who you are via body art." "Many native tribes practiced therapeutic tattooing. The Ojibwa, for instance, tattooed the temples, forehead, and cheeks of those suffering from headaches and toothaches that were believed to be caused by malevolent spirits. Songs and dances that were supposed to exorcise the demons accompanied the tattooing ceremony." (Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 90) "Tattooing is about personalizing the body, making it a true home and fit temple for the spirit that dwells inside it. . . Tattooing therefore, is a way of keeping the spiritual and material needs of my body in balance." (Michelle Delio, Tattoo: The Exotic Art of Skin Decoration, p. 8) So, here we have, by PRO TATOO people, the ones that document the history, a complete admission of WHY tatooing was practiced, and who was behind it. More will follow, as the questions flow here.... Who wants to go first? I have 5. One is very questionable and I did it before I came back to the Church. I am getting one more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy316 Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Now I would estimate that 2/3'rds of young woman over the age of 20 have them. Why? Okay, that is an AWFUL estimate. There is no way that two-thirds of women over 20 have tattoos. I would say maybe one fourth. Actually, I only know 3 women with tattoos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Why you gotta be such a bigot Bruce S? Last week it was knocking Catholics and calling us bigots, this week you knocking tattoos. You keep making all of these historical references about tattoos and ancient culture etc. but this is America, a melting pot of cultures where people are free to take what they want from any culture and apply it to their lives in whatever manner they see fit. You completely judged people with tattoos by saying they are "lukewarm, carnal, disobedient, Laodicean Christians." Do you know any Christians with tattoos? Some of the holiest and most faithful Christians I know have tattoos, many of them declaring or expressing their faith and devotion through it. I would like to get a tattoo, but not until I get married and my wife says it's okay. My body belongs to my spouse and she'll have to look at it every day. Anywho. I'm sick of seeing you (bruce s) so quick to judge people and grouping them into pathetically inaccurate stereotypes. Calm down buddy, Bruce is not only refering to Catholics, but all Christians in general. Though I wouldn't say he's accusing Christians with tatoos, as pagans or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I gotta admit, I kind of see the point Bruce is trying to make here. Tattooing in this day and age however is nothing more than a fad. For most people I kind of think they are being a bit narcissistic in getting them. Sorta like, "hey look at me and my cool tattoo." Now before those of you that have tattoos get your undies in a bunch, let me just say that I've already heard all I need to hear as to why you get them. I'm still not seeing the reasoning though. The simple fact is that you want to show them off. If your not showing them off (by keeping them covered), then what is the point in even getting them? But hey, it's your body I guess, do what you will. God did grant you the gift (or is it?) of free will. I wouldn't mind a couple tatoos (with Christian/Catholic symbols). I don't know, I guess it's something a lot of people enjoy getting. You can ask the same question towards those who want to dress a certain way, or have their hair a certain way. Some want it for attention, but others want it because... they like it and believe it's nice. I don't know, it's a desire that some have and others don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Question: Is it a sin to have a tatoo that is visible in public? Is it fine if it's visible in public, but also able to cover it if needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I am able to easily conceal all of mine with my normal style of dress. In fact, 95 percent of the time, my tattoos are not visible. If they were visible, I don't believe it would be a sin, so long as the tattoo itself is not objectionable. From a professional standpoint, I think it would be an issue in my particular job if I had a visible tattoos. They are acceptable in certain areas of society, but not so much among the lawyers and judges I interact with on a professional level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I am able to easily conceal all of mine with my normal style of dress. In fact, 95 percent of the time, my tattoos are not visible. If they were visible, I don't believe it would be a sin, so long as the tattoo itself is not objectionable. From a professional standpoint, I think it would be an issue in my particular job if I had a visible tattoos. They are acceptable in certain areas of society, but not so much among the lawyers and judges I interact with on a professional level. I guess as long as you have them on your back, shoulder, chest, or upper leg, it'll be easier to cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalscout Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Question: Is it a sin to have a tatoo that is visible in public? Is it fine if it's visible in public, but also able to cover it if needed? I don't know Church teachings on that but I think it is all a matter of good taste as well as how much of your life you devote to it. I know a few people who are "sleeved" and to be honest you I cannot really distinguish the individual tattoos unless I look close. It all just starts to look like ink blending togetther. To each his own I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Okay, that is an AWFUL estimate. There is no way that two-thirds of women over 20 have tattoos. I would say maybe one fourth. Actually, I only know 3 women with tattoos. I agree that the 2/3 estimate is high. In fact, I would even say 25 percent is high. I would say no more than 20 percent, and probably more in the 10 to 15 percent range. The other assumption I would challenge is that this is something limited to people in their 20s -- I fall into that category, but I have several friends in their 30s and 40s who have tattoos. Former hippies :peace: :hippie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mp15 Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I gotta ask, but what is wrong with the plain old skin God gave you? Why defile what was pure to begin with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted January 5, 2004 Author Share Posted January 5, 2004 The question is why? Not how, or what kind. Why? What are the historical roots behind tattooing, and why NOW? What prompted something out of favor forever ... To be socially "acceptable" that is the issue. Isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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