Catholics Getting Tattoo'ed?

[Bruce S]

I know that many of the Protestant ministers are trying to contain the current trend towards getting a tattoo. Personally, I think that this craze IS sort of one that Satan "might be" behind.

I interact with many young people, years ago, the only people with tattoo's were bikers, convicts, and sailors, you NEVER saw a "normal woman" with one, never. Now I would estimate that 2/3'rds of young woman over the age of 20 have them. Why?

Not to be goofy, but SERIOUSLY here, let's discuss the origin, history of, and current practice BEHIND the tatoo, and what the people pushing this craze themselves have to say about WHY they do tatoo's...

Quoted.....from a good online site, excellent research on this....

"Ye worship ye know not what. . ."  Jesus Christ, John 4:24

Throughout history the tattoo bears the mark of paganism, demonism, Ba'al worship, shamanism, mysticism, heathenism, cannibalism and just about every other pagan belief known. The tattoo has NEVER been associated with Bible Believing Christians. And whenever and wherever, in history Christianity appears – tattoos disappear. The only exception -- 20th century, lukewarm, carnal, disobedient, Laodicean Christians.

The birth of the tattoo has always born the fruits of pagan religion and mysticism. Without exception, research after research, study after study, book after book, the roots of the tattoo never wavers. The following documentation is just a small (very small) drop of the ocean of research documenting the pagan and demonic source of the tattoo.

Please remember. . . The following documentation is from pro-tattoo books simply documenting the obvious spiritual and religious link to the tattoo. These are not Christian writers trying to paint a negative portrait of the tattoo. No matter how much the carnal, rebellious, Christian desires to justify their perverse reasoning for "marking" themselves with the forbidden demonic tattoo, the facts are loud and clear, backed by tons of research and documentation by the leading pro-tattoo authorities on the planet – the foundation, origin, meaning and purposes of the tattoo is pagan demonism, shamanism, Baal worship, and occult mysticism.

A tattooist in many cultures is also a shaman, magick-man, priest or priestess. According to the dictionary a shaman is a "intermediary between the natural and supernatural worlds, using magic to cure illness, foretell the future, control spiritual forces, etc."

"Tattooing is often a magical rite in the more traditional cultures, and the tattooist is respected as a priest or shaman."

(Michelle Delio, Tattoo: The Exotic Art of Skin Decoration, p. 73)

"In Fiji, Fromosa, New Zealand and in certain of the North American Indian tribes, tattooing was regard as a religious ceremony, and performed by priests or priestesses."

(Ronald Scutt, Art, Sex and Symbol, 1974, p. 64)

"The actual tattooing process, which involved complex ritual and taboos, could only be done by priests and was associated with beliefs which were secrets known only to members of the priestly caste. . . Hambly concluded that historically tattooing had originated in connection with ancient rites of scarification and bloodletting which were associated with religious practices intended to put the human soul in harmony with supernatural forces and ensure continuity between this life and the next."

(Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 158)

Famous witch and author Laurie Cabot writes of the tattoo:

"The origins of tattooing came from ancient magical practices. . . "

(Laurie Cabot, Power of the Witch, cited in Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated by Dr. Cathy Burns, p. 301)

"According to Amy Krakow in her chronicle The Total Tattoo Book, ‘tattooing has had well-defined roles: marking a rite of passage at a stage of life, calling the spirits, proudly, defiantly or sneaky showing who you are via body art."

"Many native tribes practiced therapeutic tattooing. The Ojibwa, for instance, tattooed the temples, forehead, and cheeks of those suffering from headaches and toothaches that were believed to be caused by malevolent spirits. Songs and dances that were supposed to exorcise the demons accompanied the tattooing ceremony."

(Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 90)

"Tattooing is about personalizing the body, making it a true home and fit temple for the spirit that dwells inside it. . . Tattooing therefore, is a way of keeping the spiritual and material needs of my body in balance."

(Michelle Delio, Tattoo: The Exotic Art of Skin Decoration, p. 8)

So, here we have, by PRO TATOO people, the ones that document the history, a complete admission of WHY tatooing was practiced, and who was behind it.

More will follow, as the questions flow here....

Who wants to go first?

Edited January 5, 2004 by Bruce S

[NewReformation]

The Bible never condemns tattoos as a whole. It only prohibits marking oneself in memory of the dead.

By the way...where do you get that Laocidean Christians were running around with a bunch of tattoos?

[Bruce S]

In the pages of history, whenever and wherever "tattooing" pagan tribes were converted to Christianity, without exception, one of their first pagan practices to "pass away" [ 2 Corinthians 5:17] – was the tattoo. Why? Because, unlike today’s disobedient carnal "tattooed" Christians (or so-called?), the converted pagan KNEW the tattoo was against the Word of God. The Holy Spirit quickly "told" the converted pagan – no tattoo.

"Just as occurred in other cultures with tattoo traditions, when these pagan tribes were ‘converted’ to the Christian religion, their spiritual and cultural rites (which included tattooing, piercing and scarification) were outlawed. . ."

(Jean-Chris Miller, The Body Art Book : A Complete, Illustrated Guide to Tattoos, Piercings, and Other Body Modifications, p.9)

Amazing. . . When the Lord Jesus Christ enters in – the tattoo goes out.

"Whenever missionaries encountered tattooing they eradicated it."

(Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 101)

"While these and other body modifications continued to be practiced underground as a way for non-Christian people to identify each other, God forbid you got caught and your mark was revealed."

(Jean-Chris Miller, The Body Art Book : A Complete, Illustrated Guide to Tattoos, Piercings, and Other Body Modifications, p.11)

[Bruce S]

By the way...where do you get that Laocidean Christians were running around with a bunch of tattoos?

The Laodicean's were condemned for reverting back to Pagan rites, I suppose the author just tossed that in as and example, frankly, I don't know... :wacko:

[NewReformation]

I can present scripture which condemns ONLY getting a tattoo in connection with funeral rites. Which would leave the possibility of getting a tattoo for some other reason open. Can you present any scripture for your view?

[Bruce S]

Well, it is NOT specifically dealing with ONLY funeral rites, sure the passage is in conjunction with them, it mentions it there, BUT I would submit, it is a broader prohibition against bodily mutilation, that being a Pagan practice, and as such, seen by Christians as forbidden. I think the following QUOTATION will begin to set this in proper perspective.

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LEVITICUS 19:28?

Leviticus 19:28 is the Christian (or so-called Christian?) tattooist and tattoo-bearer's worst nightmare. The Lord plainly, clearly, strongly, and without a doubt – condemns the tattoo.

Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

Leviticus 19:28

Could that be any more clear?

"Ye shall not. . .print any marks upon you. . ."

Simple. . . Straightforward. . .Settled. . .

God Said It. . . I Believe It. . . That Settles It. . .

Right. . .?

Not hardly. . .

The clear statement from the word of God does not settle anything for this generation of disobedient, carnal, worldy, tolerant, non-judgmental, Christians. Rather than obey God, they run miles and miles and miles to "justify" their open disobedience to the Word of God.

How do they get around Leviticus 19:28?

Clearly, there it is. "Ye shall not. . .print any marks upon you. . ."

A lot of Christians when confronted with Leviticus 19:28, scream, "Hey dude, that’s not for today. Man, that’s the Old Testament. I’m under the New Testament".

Did you know that "bestiality" (sicko, perverted, sex with an animal) was ONLY forbidden in the Old Testament Levitical Law? Only in Leviticus 18:23 and Leviticus 20:15-16. Dude, only in the Old Testament Law. Does that mean a Holy God NOW – under the New Testament, approves of bestiality?

By the way, have you ever read Leviticus 19:29? The verse immediately AFTER the "it’s not for me" Leviticus 19:28?

Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.

Leviticus 19:29

This is the only place in the Bible that God directly forbids someone to prostitute their daughter. And since, it’s ONLY in the Old Testament Levitical Law (and "hey, dude, we’re NOT under the law") – it MUST be ok by the Lord for a parent to cause their daughter to prostitute.

Same sick, perverted, wicked, line of reasoning as the "it’s ONLY in the Old Testament-tattoo-bearer-wearer". Same reasoning. . . Same disobedience. . . Same perversion of the Word of God.

There are many other "moral laws’ that are ONLY forbidden in the Old Testament, such as the human sacrifice of children. No where in the New Testament is this forbidden. Does that mean that NOW under the New Testament, God Almighty endorses throwing babies into the fire as a human sacrifice?

And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

Leviticus 18:21

[Norseman82]

Well, personally, I remember when it was the men who wore the tattoos and women who wore the earrings....

[bookofjohn]

Just a question here. What about having plastic surgery? Isn't that considered to be bodily mutilation? :blink:

[Bruce S]

Just a question here. What about having plastic surgery? Isn't that considered to be bodily mutilation?

I guess that depends upon the skill of the surgeon....grin. :P

[NewReformation]

Well, it is NOT specifically dealing with ONLY funeral rites, sure the passage is in conjunction with them, it mentions it there, BUT I would submit, it is a broader prohibition against bodily mutilation, that being a Pagan practice, and as such, seen by Christians as forbidden. I think the following QUOTATION will begin to set this in proper perspective.

-------------

LEVITICUS 19:28?

Leviticus 19:28 is the Christian (or so-called Christian?) tattooist and tattoo-bearer's worst nightmare. The Lord plainly, clearly, strongly, and without a doubt – condemns the tattoo.

Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

Leviticus 19:28

Could that be any more clear?

"Ye shall not. . .print any marks upon you. . ."

Simple. . . Straightforward. . .Settled. . .

God Said It. . . I Believe It. . . That Settles It. . .

Right. . .?

Not hardly. . .

The clear statement from the word of God does not settle anything for this generation of disobedient, carnal, worldy, tolerant, non-judgmental, Christians. Rather than obey God, they run miles and miles and miles to "justify" their open disobedience to the Word of God.

How do they get around Leviticus 19:28?

Clearly, there it is. "Ye shall not. . .print any marks upon you. . ."

A lot of Christians when confronted with Leviticus 19:28, scream, "Hey dude, that’s not for today. Man, that’s the Old Testament. I’m under the New Testament".

Did you know that "bestiality" (sicko, perverted, sex with an animal) was ONLY forbidden in the Old Testament Levitical Law? Only in Leviticus 18:23 and Leviticus 20:15-16. Dude, only in the Old Testament Law. Does that mean a Holy God NOW – under the New Testament, approves of bestiality?

By the way, have you ever read Leviticus 19:29? The verse immediately AFTER the "it’s not for me" Leviticus 19:28?

Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.

Leviticus 19:29

This is the only place in the Bible that God directly forbids someone to prostitute their daughter. And since, it’s ONLY in the Old Testament Levitical Law (and "hey, dude, we’re NOT under the law") – it MUST be ok by the Lord for a parent to cause their daughter to prostitute.

Same sick, perverted, wicked, line of reasoning as the "it’s ONLY in the Old Testament-tattoo-bearer-wearer". Same reasoning. . . Same disobedience. . . Same perversion of the Word of God.

There are many other "moral laws’ that are ONLY forbidden in the Old Testament, such as the human sacrifice of children. No where in the New Testament is this forbidden. Does that mean that NOW under the New Testament, God Almighty endorses throwing babies into the fire as a human sacrifice?

And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

Leviticus 18:21

Actually, it is dealing with funeral rites. I can put ellipses in any verse and make it say what I want it to say. And that would be EXACTLY what is going on here.

For example:

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world...that whosoever...shall have everlasting life."

Now what did I do there? I eliminated the need for a person to believe in Christ.

What does your verse say?

"YE SHALL NOT make any cuttings in your flesh FOR THE DEAD..."

For what reason should you not do it?

Your quote perverts the word of God into what you want it to say.

Take the whole verse and look at the whole verse. Not just the parts you like.

[Bruce S]

Using Catholic thinking here, and this is the place for that, one would have to ask....

"What was the position of the early Christian church, and of Jews themselves regarding tattoo'ing?

Is this even now, a mark of rebellion against Christian "norms" over the centuries?

---------------------------------- QUOTE ----------------------------------------

Throughout history tattoos have symbolized rebellion. There’s nothing normal about a tattoo.

Every tattoo book, and every article, I researched, both old and new, openly affirmed the deliberate rebellion symbolized by the tattoo. Book after book, article after article, sung the same song – tattoos are open rebellion. It’s worth noting – all the following quotes are from pro tattoo books.

"Since body art is still not mainstream, having marks on your body that you put there on purpose shows the world your rebellious and unconventional nature".

(Jean-Chris Miller, The Body Art Book : A Complete, Illustrated Guide to Tattoos, Piercings, and Other Body Modifications, p. 32)

"In this culture, a tattooed person is still looked at as a rebel, as someone who has very visibly stepped out of the bounds of normal society, . . ."(Michelle Delio, Tattoo: The Exotic Art of Skin Decoration, p. 75)

"Unquestionably tattoos are socially unacceptable."

(Ronald Scutt, Art, Sex and Symbol, 1974, p. 179)

TATTOO: A MARK OF DISGRACE OR REPROACH

Steve Gilbert, in the very popular, pro-tattoo book, Tattoo History: A Source Book, documents that even the word "tattoo" means ". . . a mark of disgrace or reproach".

"The Latin word for ‘tattoo’ was stigma and the original meaning is reflected in modern dictionaries. Among the definitions of ‘stigma’ listed by Webster are a ‘prick with a pointed instrument,’ . . .’ a distinguishing mark cut into the flesh of a slave or a criminal,’ and ‘a mark of disgrace or reproach."

(Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 15)

In fact, for most of it’s slimy history the tattoo was used to mark the criminal, adulterers, traitors, deserters, the deviant and outcast. The tattoo was a dreaded mark of reproach and disgrace.

"Adultery, also, was punished in this way [tattooed] in some parts of Britain, and ‘bad characters’ were marked BC. . . In 1717, branding was abolished in the Army and replaced with tattooing. .. with the letter ‘D’ deserter’"

(Ronald Scutt, Art, Sex and Symbol, 1974, p. 162)

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I might add, that SLAVES were often tattoo'ed to show the owners name and the ownership of the person. In WWII, Jews in the concentration camps were tattoo'ed for the same basic reasons.

In no society that I know of, where Christianity was held in high regard, was the practice of tattoo'ing condoned, like it is here now.

Edited January 5, 2004 by Bruce S

[Paladin D]

The Catholic Church is only against excessive tatoos. Example, the picture you just posted.

[cmotherofpirl]

Fashions and cultures change and tattoos are now popular. THe key is moderation.

I would love a celtic armband.

[Sojourner]

I am a 27-year-old Christian woman, and I have three tattoos. Each of them symbolizes a significant point in my life. The first is on my lower right leg. It is a square Celtic cross. I got this tattoo almost five years ago, my first year out of college. I chose a cross to symbolize my Christian faith, and I chose this specific design because I like it.

The second tattoo is a butterfly, on the small of my back, which I got nearly two years ago. I chose this design because I had just experienced a total renewal in my spiritual journey. For about three years prior to that, I had really been struggling with my view of God, and with whether or not I wanted to follow him. I’d been choosing not to – not attending church, not observing any level of spiritual discipline, avoiding fellowship with Christians. I had been working as a courts and cops reporter, covering the absolutely horrible stuff that happens to people and that people do to one another, and was really struggling with despair. Through a series of events and bad choices on my part, God brought me to an understanding of the depth of my own sin, and at the same time began revealing his grace to me.

The third tattoo is a flower, on the top of my left foot. I got this last spring, so I’ve had it almost a year. This again symbolizes a continuing sense of spiritual renewal, and marks the continued growth that I’ve experienced as a Christian.

I really didn’t consider the secular history of tattoos when I got them. I did consider the verse from Leviticus that’s been cited, which appears to be in reference to funeral rites (and incidentally is right after “Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard”) and I made the decision at that point that this was a law which was not applicable in my case. I didn't find any other biblical enjoiners against them.

They were a personal choice, with extraordinarily personal significance. I have at several points regretted getting them, because they are permanent, and I’m sure that if I happen to be around in 35 years I’ll be sagging in all those places and they’ll really look horrible. I’m also sure I could also have found some other means of marking these things, but at this point I have them. I have thought at various points about getting them removed, but a) I haven’t had the money for removal, which is a significant cost, and b) I have no desire to go through the painful removal process. Despite these second thoughts, I still like them. They remind me of good things God has done and continues to do in my life.

I don’t plan to get any more tattoos. I don’t encourage other people to get them, but I don’t discourage them either.

[Matty_boy]

Why you gotta be such a bigot Bruce S? Last week it was knocking Catholics and calling us bigots, this week you knocking tattoos. You keep making all of these historical references about tattoos and ancient culture etc. but this is America, a melting pot of cultures where people are free to take what they want from any culture and apply it to their lives in whatever manner they see fit. You completely judged people with tattoos by saying they are "lukewarm, carnal, disobedient, Laodicean Christians." Do you know any Christians with tattoos? Some of the holiest and most faithful Christians I know have tattoos, many of them declaring or expressing their faith and devotion through it. I would like to get a tattoo, but not until I get married and my wife says it's okay. My body belongs to my spouse and she'll have to look at it every day.

Anywho. I'm sick of seeing you (bruce s) so quick to judge people and grouping them into pathetically inaccurate stereotypes.