How Many Denominations?

[journeyman]

An interesting, and, on its face, well thought out rebuttal of apologist claims of 30,000 Protestant denominations and growing . . .

[url="http://www.ntrmin.org/30000denominations.htm"]http://www.ntrmin.org/30000denominations.htm[/url]

Do you have sources of information that contradict the basic premise?

[Era Might]

Dave Armstrong (Catholic apologist) agreed with Svendsen, and amended his perpetuation of the myth.

The fundamental difference between Protestantism and Catholicism is that, although there are many local Catholic Churches, they are all united to a visible, hierarchical communion that traces its roots to the Apostles. However many denominations there are in Protestantism, they are not united in one ecclesiastical communion, and individually they are answerable to no one except their own conscience.

[jswranch]

my take,
The number is high, too high (>1). How many denominations are there? We will never know.

[thessalonian]

My take, while the number of formal denominations may be two high BUT the variety of opinions and dissent within Protestantism is understanded by it. I am simply amazed at the number of combinations of thinking on matters people consider critical on the internet. Almost daily I hear someone coming up with something new. Just this morning a Prot pastor on TV said murders cannot be "saved" on earth. They have to be put to death (capitol punishment) so that they go before the throne of God and sort things out. He also said Elisha sent a letter to a king from heaven 6 years after his death. I think he claimed support for it was in 2 Chron 2. Everybody has their own opinion on the Bible and digs their heals in.

[scardella]

667 denominations! One is true, the other 666 are the devil...

Umm... actually, I don't know.

Edited July 27, 2006 by scardella

[ilovechrist]

i truly believe that no one will be able to give a solid factual answer, because down here in the South there is a new church with a new set of beliefs opening up every other week advertising their two Sunday services. do you think all of them can be recorded as quickly as they start up? i don't.

at this stage in the US--if you don't like what the preacher is saying, you have full freedom to leave, rent a building, and start your own church with you as the head. just forge some signatures if you want to say you're a Reverend and have at it.

it's sickening.

Edited July 27, 2006 by ilovechrist

[XIX]

[quote]Throughout this book we have examined the Roman Catholic apologist’s primary argument against sola Scriptura and Protestantism; namely, that sola Scriptura produces doctrinal anarchy as is witnessed in the 25,000 Protestant denominations extant today. [/quote]
That's not our primary argument. That's not even close to our primary argument!! For crying out loud, stop putting words into our mouths.

[thessalonian]

Let's just go with alot of denominations and note that 99.9% of them started with the deformation (reformation) and sola scriptura which makes multiple denominations. Martin Luther himself said "there are more theologies than heads".

[Didacus]

[quote]If, on the other hand, they would rather claim that among those 2,942+ (perhaps 8,000?) Roman Catholic denominations there is “unity,” then they can have no objection to the notion that among the 8,196 Protestant denominations there is also unity.[/quote]

This is fallacious.


If one considers 2,942 (possibly 8,000) Roman Catholic denominations, one must agree that each of these denominations, for them to be truly roman Catholic, adhere to the Papacy and are in union with Rome. Hence, the 'unity' of the Catholic chruch.

If a denomination is not in union with Rome, then they are forcably protestant.


Protestant denominations have no 'common ground' such as the papacy and thus have no 'union' or 'unity' with each other.


32,000 or 8,000 or no matter how many thousands, the point remains the same; Protestant denominations, as per their past, unceassingly split whenever disagreements come to be considered inreconciliable. The thousands of protestant denominations lay testimony to this.

Edited July 27, 2006 by Didacus

[SJP]

Svendsen's argument does not in anyway, undermine Catholic apologists who claim that sola scriptura and protestantism produce doctrinal anarchy.

Svendsen attempts to demonstrate that there are almost as many divisions within Catholicism as there are within Protestantism.

As evidence for his claim Svendsen cites the fact that there are 16 "True denominations" within Roman Catholicism.

"7) Roman Catholic, there are sixteen traditions, including Latin-rite local, Latin-rite catholic, Latin/Eastern-rite local, Latin/Eastern-rite catholic, Syro-Malabarese, Ukrainian, Romanian, Maronite, Melkite, Chaldean, Ruthenian, Hungarian, plural Oriental rites, Syro-Malankarese, Slovak, and Coptic. It is important to note here that Barrett places these sixteen Roman Catholic traditions (i.e., true denominations) on the very same level as the twenty-one Protestant traditions (i.e., true denominations). In other words, the true count of real denominations within Protestantism is twenty-one, whereas the true count of real denominations within Roman Catholic is sixteen."

However, what Svendsen fails to mention/recognize is that any Catholic Church that is in full communion with Rome is, by virtue of its communion, a member of the the one True Catholic Church.

As noted by Basil H. Losten (Bishop of Stamford, Ukrainian Catholic Church)
"The Eastern Catholic Churches are in full communion with the Catholic Church. All bishops and priests may concelebrate Holy Mass with one another and all Catholic people may receive Holy Communion at the hands of any Catholic bishop or priest, whether that bishop or priest belongs to the Latin Catholic Church or to one of the Eastern Catholic Churches (just as all Catholics may receive Holy Communion from any Catholic bishop or priest, whether the bishop or priest belongs to this or that diocese or monastic order). All Catholics recognize the primacy of the Holy Father, the Pope or Bishop of Rome, who is the First Bishop of the entire Catholic Church and the Vicar of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul. In turn, the Holy Father exercises pastoral care for all Catholics, whether they belong to the latin Church or to the Eastern Catholic Churches."

Any Church that remains outside of full communion with the One True Catholic Church, does not posses the fullness of Truth that is found only in the One True Catholic Church.

It is therefore irrelevant whether there are 6, 60, 600, or 60 000 different denominations.
Only one can be true ---> The Catholic Church.

[Mateo el Feo]

I would never cite the "30,000 denominations" figure. But, I would be quick to open the local yellow pages or newspaper religion section to anyone who believed in protestant unity. The point is easy enough to make without having to support the 30k figure.

[thessalonian]

A rite would only be called a denomination by someone ignorant of what a rite is. Svedson. There are no doctrinal differences from one rite to another. Only differences in practice. On the other hand don't try to tell me there are no differences between Baptists and Lutherans or for that matter between Southern, Landmark, American, and other baptists (of which there are over 70 divisions last I heard).

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Baptist_denominations"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Baptist_denominations[/url]

Tell me something. Has there ever been a division within a Protestant denomination that has been over things other than doctrine. I.e. do you suppose that the head pastor says to the associate who dissagrees with him on a passage, "oh, well very good then, head down the street and take half my congregation. That will be nice." or more likely "don't let the door hit you in the posterior end on the way out".

Blessings

Edited July 27, 2006 by thessalonian

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Whether there are 30,000 or 5 Protestant denominations, the failure of sola scriptura to reveal the truth is proven by the fact that there is more than one.

[pyranima]

[url="http://home.inreach.com/bstanley/spirit.htm"]http://home.inreach.com/bstanley/spirit.htm[/url] here is the Number 1 problem and Martin Luther agrees. If Sola Fide falls then Sola Scriptora falls. you wanna get a Protestant good? ask this.
[color="#3333FF"]
Do you believe in the bible?[/color]
[color="#009900"]Yes[/color]
[color="#3333FF"]Do you believe the bible is the infallible word of God?[/color]
[color="#009900"]Yes[/color]
[color="#3333FF"]Do you believe that everything in the bible is 100% true?[/color]
[color="#009900"]Yes[/color]
[color="#3333FF"]Do you believe anyone who teaches counter to Scripture teaches in the spirit of AntiChrist?[/color]
[color="#009900"]Yes[/color]
[color="#3333FF"]Do you believe that Someone who teaches Directly against Scripture teaches from Man and not God?[/color]
[color="#009900"]Yes[/color]
[color="#3333FF"]Do you Believe in Salvation by Faith alone?[/color]
[color="#009900"]Yes[/color]
[/u][color="#FF0000"]"James 2:24 "we see that a man is Justified by Works And NOT By Faith Alone"[/color][/b]

So another words by believing in Faith alone you teach counter Scripture.

[Didacus]

Didn't Luther described that book of James as 'unfit writtings of an apostle'?