In Defense Of Islam

[Jake Huether]

I think Muslims have the motions down, while reasoning behind them is questionable. Christianity (Catholocism more specifically) holds the True reasons, yet the followers seldom have all the motions down.

Motions meaning, dress, prayer, devotion, etc.

While Catholic Christians talk the talk, many do not walk the walk.

Muslims walk the walk, but its the talk that misleads them.

I wish there were more Catholic (women) who dressed more appropriatly. I find it absolutly fasinating (and quite attractive) how Muslim women cover themselvs and only reveal themselves to their husband. Prayer is big too. And fasting!

[geetarplayer]

We define "salvation" as a GIFT, without need to DO religious observance, the Catholic Church adds in the sacramental system and Protestants regard those as a "works" requirement.

Not to belabor the point, but just noting it in passing.

This is a little revalation that's just come to me. Sorry to those who have already said this without me knowing it.

It's not that the Sacraments are used to earn salvation. The Sacraments are gifts, not chores, which is what all Catholics need to recognize, practicing or non-practicing, faithful or unfaithful. There's a big difference between refusing to do a chore and rejecting a gift. God has granted us all Salvation through the sacrifice that Jesus went through. The Sacraments remind us of that Salvation, and give us a little taste of Heaven (sometimes literally).

-Mark

[Circle_Master]

It's not that the Sacraments are used to earn salvation. The Sacraments are gifts, not chores, which is what all Catholics need to recognize, practicing or non-practicing, faithful or unfaithful. There's a big difference between refusing to do a chore and rejecting a gift. God has granted us all Salvation through the sacrifice that Jesus went through. The Sacraments remind us of that Salvation, and give us a little taste of Heaven (sometimes literally).

this sounds like the sacraments are completely seperate from salvation. is this what you are saying?

[Aloysius]

i dont think that's what he was saying at all. he's saying that sacraments aren't works.. they're gifts. they are superabundant with grace. we are not merely performing a work of the law in baptism as circumsision did, we are receiving the grace from God, receiving God the Father, the SOn, and the Holy Spirit to live within us when we are baptized. with circumsision, they were just making a statement that they were part of the covenant. that is a work of the law. but with baptism we are actually receiving grace from God. i was just using baptism/circumsision as an example, but any work of the law that you feel remotely reflects the way we must receive sacraments, this rule works. that work of the law was merely a statement, and the jews said you had to make that statement to be in the covenant. but with sacraments we go to receive God's grace. it's not a work of the law at all, but a gift from God to us. :)

[M.SIGGA]

Regarding the connection beween Catholicism and Islam, Muslim actions are based totally and completely on works because we Christians are instructed by God in His Word, not the nonsense of the Koran. It's pretty insulting to connect the two.

The Sacraments are not separate from Faith+Works. They are all biblical and part of what it means to be a Christian.

Commission to Ministers of the Church (1 Cor 4:1)

Essential elements of a Sacrament is 1. a persons faith 2. the physical sign 3. the supernatural power flowing out from Jesus; all shown in (Mark 5:25-34)

The merits of Jesus' death and resurrection are applied to us over time and not in one big lump (cf. Phil 2:12, 1 Pet 1:9)

Please take a look and respond. Thanks.

[M.SIGGA]

this sounds like the sacraments are completely seperate from salvation. is this what you are saying?

I'm a little confused too. The Sacraments are a recieved in Faith and are an act of Faith so I would say no, and also because salvation is tied into each one (7).

[PatrickRitaMichael]

LET'S TALK ABOUT ISLAM!

I have the opportunity to be at a school right now where I'd say at least half of the people are Muslim. I've met some really devout people and some nice people who don't follow the rules as well as they should. I can't doubt that they love God any more or less than I do (and we ARE talking about the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, essentially the same God, just without Jesus. I know you can't have one w/o the other three, but it's not their fault. this is not a conclusion about their salvation). Anyway, I think that we can learn a lot about devotion to God from Muslims and possibly encourage them in their search for Truth (God, aka - Jesus). Muslims believe that the Bible (NT and OT) have been corrupted through time and that the Koran is the true word of God. They also believe that Jews and Christians are Muslims, but without the complete Truth (Islam). There is no sense in trying to 'evangelize' to a Muslim b/c that depends on the Bible and they don't believe in the Bible. The best thing you can do is engage in intelligent conversation -- not just "Do you know Jesus? Why not?" -- about what you BOTH believe and live the best life you can. I've heard it said that the only gospel some people hear is the life you lead. It's so true.

Also, I really like the whole covering up the body thing. Men have to, too, (torso, thighs) but what we notice most is the hijab (head covering worn by women). It can be used to oppress women, but that is human weakness (it's happen w/in Christianity too). It's worn to prevent men from lusting after women (we are beautiful, what can i say?) -- isn't that so loving?! I think about a conversation I had with two of my christian girl-friends when I told them I didn't want to wear sleeveless shirts anymore. They were like, if a guy lusts after me, that's his problem, I can't control his thoughts. But the thing is, WE CAN and SHOULD try and prevent our brothers from sinning. This means sacrificing somethings -- true love is sacrifice, right? The same goes for men, too. Don't walk around w/ your shirts off (this doesn't happen as much as skantilly-clad women walk around). Our self-centered society has influenced our religion so much that we forget that we should be falling all over ourselves to serve our brothers and sisters and that includes dressing in a way that is modest and respectful of other's struggles.

[Bruce S]

Also, I really like the whole covering up the body thing. Men have to, too, (torso, thighs) but what we notice most is the hijab (head covering worn by women). It can be used to oppress women, but that is human weakness (it's happen w/in Christianity too). It's worn to prevent men from lusting after women (we are beautiful, what can i say?) -- isn't that so loving?!

Make a comparison, Nun habit's that the Nun's on EWTN wear doing the Rosary every night, and the dress of the Muslim women in Iran.

Almost totally identical.

Got ya thinking on that one, huh?

[PatrickRitaMichael]

Isn't it beautiful that those who truly love God, people who have dedicated their lives to Him (i.e. the nuns) cover their bodies in love for God and for their neighbor? We should all try to dress like nuns. Maybe not necessarily always wear skirts (I'm not a fan), but modestly.

[Anna]

LET'S TALK ABOUT ISLAM!

Muslims believe that the Bible (NT and OT) have been corrupted through time and that the Koran is the true word of God.

 

This reminds me of protestants, who know that the Early Church was Catholic, yet feel that through time, It became corrupt and fell! (Yet, it still stands.)

There is no sense in trying to 'evangelize' to a Muslim b/c that depends on the Bible and they don't believe in the Bible.

Similarly, many fundamentalist protestants refuse to acknowledge the One True Church, because that depends on history, Sacred Tradition, and the Authority which Christ Himself established and they don't believe in history, Sacred Tradition, and the Authority Christ established. (They prefer Martin Luther's "Burger King theology": Have it your way.) Sincere, devout, dedicated, yes...but submissive? Never. Staunch and prideful, like Luther himself...The sins of the Father of Protestantism are passed on to the following generations...

(Sorry to take this off Islam.)

Pax Christi. <><

Edited January 7, 2004 by Anna

[M.SIGGA]

Make a comparison, Nun habit's that the Nun's on EWTN wear doing the Rosary every night, and the dress of the Muslim women in Iran.

Almost totally identical.

Got ya thinking on that one, huh?

Lol. What about the beehive hairdoos of Southern Baptist women and the wrapped hairdoos of Sihks in India. So different, yet so alike. Scary.

[PatrickRitaMichael]

So does anyone have hope for Muslims going to heaven? I'm just curious about this cuz I know some people think that Muslims can get to heaven b/c they worship the same God (whoops, just forgot His Son!) but some others do not think so. Opinions anyone?

[mulls]

So does anyone have hope for Muslims going to heaven? I'm just curious about this cuz I know some people think that Muslims can get to heaven b/c they worship the same God (whoops, just forgot His Son!) but some others do not think so. Opinions anyone?

well, i hope everyone gets to heaven, but we know that won't be the case.

[M.SIGGA]

well, i hope everyone gets to heaven, but we know that won't be the case.

I think people today need to pay more attention to this. Salvation is free for everyone, and it's doing a great injustice telling people they are safe in Islam instead of evangelizing them that Jesus is the way to heaven.

[mulls]

amen