What's happening in Lebanon

[stephen]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1031016' date='Jul 26 2006, 06:39 AM']
stephen,
I am open minded on this issue. (Not so open minded as cappie who disregards the reasons and thinks both sides should just 'be nice'. LOL)
Please respond to what I've read on the AP.
Isreal had pulled out of Lebanon after occupying it on the condition that the Lebonese gov't actually govern it and Hezbollah does not move in. [/quote]

That's what the talking heads of the American media have been saying. But those who have been following the situation for longer than a few weeks would say that the Israelis left Lebanon because they realized that they couldn't disarm Hezbollah and that the occupation was unpopular.

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1031016' date='Jul 26 2006, 06:39 AM']Hezbollag moves in, keeps the legitimate Lebonese gov't out or ineffectual, accepts $$ from Syria and Iran, and continually launches attacks into Isreal. Isreal, with $$ from the US (who are enemies of Syria and Iran and Hezbollah) responds to the missle attacks and kidnappings with overwelming force. [/quote]

Initial news reports stated that Hezbollah captured the two Israeli soldiers after they had crossed the border into Lebanese territory.

[quote]"The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border [b]in southern Lebanon[/b], prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces [b]into its neighbor [/b] to look for them."

[url="http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/07/12/ap2873051.html"]Forbes.com[/url][/quote]


More on that controversy here:

[url="http://www.antiwar.com/frank/?articleid=9401"]Kidnapped in Israel or Captured in Lebanon?[/url]


[quote name='Anomaly' post='1031016' date='Jul 26 2006, 06:39 AM']Hezbollah's 'militia', like Iraq's, hides behind the skirts of civillian women and children's schools since it's not a traditional military.

The war would stop in 24 hours if:
Hezbollah returns the kidnapped soldiers.[/quote]

Hezbollah has offered to swap the two captured Israeli soldiers for some of the thousands of Arab civilians, many of them women and children, which the Zionist state holds, illegally I might add, as prisoners. This is a fair offer. [url="http://www.counterpunch.org/assad07142006.html"]These deals have taken place many times in the past.[/url] This time the Israelis refuse to take a very fair deal. Many people believe that is because the recent capture of the two Israeli soldiers is only being used as a [url="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/21/MNG2QK396D1.DTL"]pretext for an attack against Lebanon which was planned long in advance[/url].

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1031016' date='Jul 26 2006, 06:39 AM']Lenonese gov't governs as promised when Isreal pulled out.[/quote]

The implication is that the struggling Lebanese government, just recovering from having it's infrastructure repeatedly destroyed by the Israelis, should have been able to do in 5 years what the Israeli military could not do in 18 years with virtually unlimited resources--disarm Hezbollah. I think that the unreasonable nature of this demand should be readily apparent to any thinking person.

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1031016' date='Jul 26 2006, 06:39 AM']Hezbollah stops shooting missles.[/quote]

I have no doubt that if the Israelis offered to cease their bombing campaign and swap prisoners that the Hezbollah rockets would stop.

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1031016' date='Jul 26 2006, 06:39 AM']Isreal withdraws back to it's borders.[/quote]

Without a miracle, that's not going to happen.

[url="http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/world/15119386.htm"]Israel Intends to Carve 'Security Zone'[/url]


[quote name='Anomaly' post='1031016' date='Jul 26 2006, 06:39 AM']Which party is dragging their feet?
[/quote]

The atrocities would stop if the Israeli military immediately halted it's illegal, brutal collective punishment of the people of Lebanon as the Vatican and every nation of the UN except for the US and UK have demanded.

Edited July 26, 2006 by stephen

[stephen]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1031243' date='Jul 26 2006, 12:34 PM']
praying for peace is the best solution, because these Middle Easterners are too stiff-necked to actually agree on anything.

[/quote]

What a strange distortion of biblical language.

The epithet "stiffnecked" was applied by God specifically to the apostate Israelites in numerous instances in Holy Scripture. One will not find that epithet applied to any other people in scripture.

[Anomaly]

So stephen. No defense for Hezbollah to give up the 2 soldiers in exchange for Isreal to stop bombing civillians? Of course, one would have to ignore the fundamental goal of Hezbollah. The destruction of Isreal. Isreal is willing to live and let live, but has to deal with entities that only want to live with the absence of Isreal. Where's reason in that?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='misereremi' post='1030999' date='Jul 26 2006, 02:41 AM']
Totally agree. There is nothing for Catholics to "support" here except calls for peace and the stance of our Pope: "cease fire IMMEDIATELY"!
[/quote]


I support Israel, and God’s Covenant With Israel, and the Jews the chosen people of God.

There can be no peace with an emeny that swears to wipe Israel off the map. I support a real peace that can only exist if this jew hating evil is destroyed.

[stephen]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1031512' date='Jul 26 2006, 07:58 PM']
So stephen. No defense for Hezbollah to give up the 2 soldiers in exchange for Isreal to stop bombing civillians? [/quote]

I will not play that game. The Israelis have no right to collectively punish the entire population of Lebanon for the actions of a few Hezbollah soldiers in the first place. That's why the Vatican and every nation of the UN, aside from the US and UK, have condemned the Israelis' barbarous actions and demanded that they cease immediately.


[quote name='Anomaly' post='1031512' date='Jul 26 2006, 07:58 PM'] Of course, one would have to ignore the fundamental goal of Hezbollah. The destruction of Isreal. [/quote]

And one is doing a fine job of ignoring the apparent goal of the Israelis--the destruction and occupation of Lebanon.


[quote name='Anomaly' post='1031512' date='Jul 26 2006, 07:58 PM'] Isreal is willing to live and let live, [/quote]

You're joking, right?

This summary of the 68 UN resolutions that the Zionist state is currently in violation of paints a clear picture of what it actually stands for:

[quote]1955-1992:
* Resolution 106: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid".
* Resolution 111: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people".
* Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
* Resolution 162: " . . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions".
* Resolution 171: " . . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria".
* Resolution 228: " . . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control".
* Resolution 237: " . . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees".
* Resolution 248: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".
* Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
* Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
* Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
* Resolution 256: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".
* Resolution 259: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".
* Resolution 262: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".
* Resolution 265: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan".
* Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
*Resolution 270: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".
* Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
* Resolution 279: " . . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 280: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 285: " . . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".
* Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
* Resolution 313: " . . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 316: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".
* Resolution 317: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".
* Resolution 332: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 337: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".
* Resolution 347: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".
* Resolution 425: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 427: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
* Resolution 444: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".
* Resolution 446: " . . . 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious
obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
* Resolution 450: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".
* Resolution 452: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".
* Resolution 465: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member
states not to assist Israel's settlements program".
* Resolution 467: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".
* Resolution 468: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of
two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".
* Resolution 469: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the
council's order not to deport Palestinians".
* Resolution 471: " . . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide
by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
* Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
* Resolution 478: " . . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its
claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'".
* Resolution 484: " . . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported
Palestinian mayors".
* Resolution 487: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's
nuclear facility".
* Resolution 497: " . . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan
Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith".
* Resolution 498: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".
* Resolution 501: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".
* Resolution 509: " . . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".
* Resolution 515: " . . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and
allow food supplies to be brought in".
* Resolution 517: " . . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions
and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 518: " . . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".
* Resolution 520: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".
* Resolution 573: " . . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia
in attack on PLO headquarters.
* Resolution 587: " . . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw
its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".
* Resolution 592: " . . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students
at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".
* Resolution 605: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices
denying the human rights of Palestinians.
* Resolution 607: " . . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly
requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
* Resolution 608: " . . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".
* Resolution 636: " . . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
* Resolution 641: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
* Resolution 672: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians
at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
* Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United
Nations.
* Resolution 681: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of
Palestinians.
* Resolution 694: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and
calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
* Resolution 726: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
* Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians
and calls for their immediate return. [/quote]



And there would be many others if the Zionist controlled US did not use it's UN veto power to block them.


[quote name='Anomaly' post='1031512' date='Jul 26 2006, 07:58 PM'] ... but has to deal with entities that only want to live with the absence of Isreal. Where's reason in that?
[/quote]

I concede that some Arab organizations and nations do not profess a belief that the Zionist state has a right to exist, but neither did Pope St. Pius X for that matter. As much as the Zionists would make support for their state a litmus test for humanity, the fact is that they have no right to do so. There are many valid reasons why a person can believe that the Zionist state is illegitimate: from it's terrorist founding with the Irgun and Stern gangs to it's present war crimes against Lebanon, and countless criminal actions in between.

And the Israelis have done everything possible to prevent the Palestinians from forming their own sovereign state. So on what grounds, other than very hypocritical grounds, do they condemn Arab organizations and nations that don't recognize "Israel" in solidarity with Palestinians? Not to mention that both Muslims and Christians have strong religious reasons for rejecting this people who allege to be "Jews" and make an unBiblical claim to the land of Palestine 2000 years after God expelled the apostate Jews from that land.

To paraphrase St. Pius X, the "Jews" have not recognized my Lord. How can I recognize their "right" to live in Palestine and call it "Israel"? It is Christians who are truly Israel.

Edited July 27, 2006 by stephen

[stephen]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1031595' date='Jul 26 2006, 10:22 PM']
I support Israel, and God’s Covenant With Israel, and the Jews the chosen people of God.[/quote]

The problem is that the Jews didn't keep their end of the deal. Crucifying the Messiah was the ultimate deal breaker with God and the reason why they were expelled from Jerusalem.

To this day the Jews, real and fake "Jews" alike, have largely upheld the tradition of the Pharisees condemned by Jesus Christ and continue to reject the Messiah. For this reason they have no right, religiously speaking, to live in the Holy Land. And I believe very strongly that it is because of this blatant disregard for God's will that there is so much strife caused by them.

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1031595' date='Jul 26 2006, 10:22 PM']There can be no peace with an emeny that swears to wipe Israel off the map. [/quote]

There can be no peace with a beligerant nation as the Zionist state has proven itself to be through it's crimes against the Lebanese people and all of it's neighbors.

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1031595' date='Jul 26 2006, 10:22 PM']I support a real peace that can only exist if this jew hating evil is destroyed.
[/quote]


You remind me of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef.

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1270038.stm"]Rabbi Calls For Annihilation of Arabs[/url]

[quote]"It is forbidden to be merciful to (Arabs). You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable." (Rabbi Ovadia Yosef) [/quote]

Edited July 27, 2006 by stephen

[stephen]

Tying up some loose ends here.

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1030871' date='Jul 25 2006, 11:29 PM']

This spam (aka Hizbollah propoganda) is hitting every web forum. Post count of the author of this post? One.
[/quote]


It may interest some people to know the extent to which the Zionist state goes to control public opinion. While the US media is completely controlled, the internet does offer some freedom from censorship and control, so the Zionists are working very hard to gain control there as well:

[quote][b]REQUEST FROM The Israeli Public Affairs Department[/b]

Posted: 7/22/2006 5:00:00 PM
Author: Amir Gissin
Source: [url="http://www.standwithus.com"]http://www.standwithus.com[/url]


This project is supported by StandWithUs.
Its an easy way for you to help!
MESSAGE FROM
Amir Gissin,
The Israeli Public Affairs Department

Dear friends,

Many of us recognize the importance of the Internet as the new battleground for Israel's image. It's time to do it better, and coordinate our on-line efforts on behalf of Israel. An Israeli software company have developed a free, safe and useful tool for us - the Internet Megaphone.

Please go to www.giyus.org, download the Megaphone, and you will receive daily updates with instant links to important internet polls, problematic articles that require a talk back, etc.

We need 100,000 Megaphone users to make a difference. So, please distribute this mail to all Israel's supporters.

Do it now. For Israel.

Amir Gissin
Director
Public Affairs Department
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Jerusalem

[url="http://www.standwithus.com/news_post.asp?NPI=914"]http://www.standwithus.com/news_post.asp?NPI=914[/url][/quote]

[quote]But if anyone wants to play the numbers game, I'd be more than happy to go along with that. [/quote]

[quote name='DAF' post='1030963' date='Jul 26 2006, 01:03 AM']

Alright, I would like to see that actually.
[/quote]

Here are some statistics for you:

[url="http://ifamericansknew.org/"]http://ifamericansknew.org/[/url]

Edited July 27, 2006 by stephen

[stephen]

[b]Mapping of Israeli assault: July 12-25[/b]


[img]http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1096/3412/400/lebanon%20map%20July%2012-25.0.jpg[/img]

Edited July 27, 2006 by stephen

[stephen]

[size=3][b]The Catholic Church condemns the Israeli atrocities, the rabbis revel in them.[/b][/size]

A glimpse of the vengeful nature of rabbinic Judaism.

[img]http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2006/07/26/2003153885.jpg[/img]
(DAVID GUTTENFELDER / AP)

[i]Israeli soldiers load missiles on a military vehicle as Israeli orthodox Jews dance, to show their support for the troops.[/i]


[img]http://graphics10.nytimes.com/images/2006/07/24/world/24mide190.jpg[/img]
Rina Castelnuovo for The New Tork Times

[i]An Israeli tank near Avivim, Israel, passed Hasidic men showing support in a “mitzvah tank” van[/i]

“Mitzvah tanks,” the brightly painted minivans operated by adherents to the Chabad-Lubavitch branch of Hasidic Judaism, arrived at the junction in the afternoon, broadcasting a sort of Hasidic disco. Their passengers, young men in Hasidic dress with wildly flowing sidelocks, spilled out of the vans dancing and singing, some leaping onto the tanks.

“We’re here to entertain the troops,” a man with a footlong beard shouted from atop one of the vans.

[url="http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/sf/nyt7_25_06_9.htm"]http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/sf/nyt7_25_06_9.htm[/url]


[img]http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6256/2146/1600/197226681_b3290c4234_o.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6256/2146/1600/197245307_f0b2ceab91_o.jpg[/img]

Edited July 27, 2006 by stephen

[Jeff]

[quote name='stephen' post='1031694' date='Jul 26 2006, 11:43 PM']
The problem is that the Jews didn't keep their end of the deal. Crucifying the Messiah was the ultimate deal breaker with God and the reason why they were expelled from Jerusalem.

To this day the Jews, real and fake "Jews" alike, have largely upheld the tradition of the Pharisees condemned by Jesus Christ and continue to reject the Messiah. For this reason they have no right, religiously speaking, to live in the Holy Land. And I believe very strongly that it is because of this blatant disregard for God's will that there is so much strife caused by them.
There can be no peace with a beligerant nation as the Zionist state has proven itself to be through it's crimes against the Lebanese people and all of it's neighbors.

[/quote]

But it's ok for the Muslims, (who deny the divinity of Christ), to have the Holy Land?!

What do you propose the Jews do. Just let the Muslims take their home's and kill them?!

What motivates your posts, stephen? Are you a Muslim, an Arab, or a Nazi?

[stephen]

[quote name='Jeff' post='1031937' date='July 27 2006, 11:02 AM']
But it's ok for the Muslims, (who deny the divinity of Christ), to have the Holy Land?! [/quote]

Muslims do deny Christ's divinity. That much is true. But Muslim Arabs did not make and then break covenants with God which explicitly stated that their occupation of the Holy Land was contingent upon their obedience to His will.

God stated the terms: if the Israelites did not obey His will, they would be expelled from the land. So yes, it is "ok" for Muslims who deny Christ's divinity to live in the Holy Land. God allowed other nations to occupy the Holy Land in other instances when He expelled the Israelites from the Holy Land for their apostasy.

These are the conditions of the Covenant for the Holy Land:

[quote]"If you shall beget sons and grandsons, and abide in the land, and being deceived, make to yourselves any similitude, committing evil before the Lord your God, to provoke him to wrath:

26 I call this day heaven and earth to witness, that you shall quickly perish out of the land, which, when you have passed over the Jordan, you shall possess. You shall not dwell therein long, but the Lord will destroy you, 27 And scatter you among all nations, and you shall remain a few among the nations, to which the Lord shall lead you." (Deuteronomy 4; 25-27)[/quote]

And the terms for allowing the Israelites to return to the Holy Land are stated thus:

[quote]1 "Now when all these things shall be come upon thee, the blessing or the curse, which I have set forth before thee, and thou shalt be touched with repentance of thy heart among all the nations, into which the Lord thy God shall have scattered thee, 2 And shalt return to him, and obey his commandments, as I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thy heart, and with all thy soul: 3 The Lord thy God will bring back again thy captivity, and will have mercy on thee, and gather thee again out of all the nations, into which he scattered thee before." (Deuteronomy 30; 1-3) [/quote]

Clearly the people who call themselves "Jews" today do not demonstrate repentance of any sort. They have not accepted the Messiah. They have upheld the condemned tradition of the Pharisees and adhere to a great many other errors including Marxist Socialism, progressive Liberalism, and many other 'isms--most notably, Zionism--which are absolutely contrary to God's will. They have no Biblical right to live in the Holy Land. These are God's terms.

I would also point out that after the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD and subsequent rebellion led by the false messiah Bar-Kokhba was crushed in 135 AD, the Jews accepted their expulsion from the Holy Land as God's will. That was the consensus view, certainly of Catholic Church, but of rabbinic Judaism also. The Zionist movement is a modern aberration which only began to gain support among "Jews" less than 100 years ago. For 1800 years it was the consensus view of rabbinic Judaism that the Diaspora was the will of God and that only the messiah (that they wait for in vein) could restore them to the Holy Land.

The philosophy of Zionism turns God's will upside down. Zionists believe that they will precipitate the coming of their messiah by moving to the Holy Land and building up "Israel"--by fulfilling prophesy through their own actions. They think they can force God's hand, so to speak.

This insane notion of forcing God's hand has infiltrated many Protestant Evangelical sects and has created an artificial symbiotic relationship between Evangelicals and the Zionist state. Hagee, Robertson, Falwell, and Missler cheer on the barbaric Israelis under the foolish assumption that they will force the Second Coming of Christ and be safely "raptured up" into the sky as the rest of humanity is slaughtered in the cataclysm which they themselves created through their rabid political and financial support for the Zionist state and encouragement of it's wars.

Unfortunately, this insanity has found it's way into Catholic circles as well.



[quote name='Jeff' post='1031937' date='Jul 27 2006, 11:02 AM']What do you propose the Jews do. Just let the Muslims take their home's and kill them?![/quote]

No, I don't propose that. But I take interest in this indignation at even the thought of Arabs killing "Jews" and taking their homes when that is precisely how the Zionists set up their state only 60 years ago: by terrorizing and killing Arabs off their land and taking their homes. I witness very little indignation among Americans related to these injustices. There's a clownish double standard involved in everything associated with Zionism.

[quote name='Jeff' post='1031937' date='Jul 27 2006, 11:02 AM']What motivates your posts, stephen? Are you a Muslim, an Arab, or a Nazi?
[/quote]

Thanks for your interest (or attempt at creating a negative association), but I'm going to focus on the issues, not myself.

Edited July 27, 2006 by stephen

[Anomaly]

I'm not a catholic or a follower of any religion, so I don't give a rat hiney what some pope says. The basic 'game' you won't 'play' ignores reality. When 1 of 2 freinds is getting his butt kicked uless the other freiends says 'uncle', the other friend should say 'uncle' and worry about the fairness of it later. You don't let your friend get it's ass whipped over your 'personal' principle. It's an unreasonable and illogical position to keep.

Hezbollah. The organizization that killed 250 americans in the barracks in beirut.

Isreal had pulled out of Lebonan. That's fact. The parties agreed that Hezbollah would not continue to attack Isreal and Lebanon would govern Southern Lebanon. Hezbollah never stopped attacking Isreal after the original pull out. Somebody has to choose to stop, and Hezbollah has said it won't be them.

[Jeff]

stephen,
The Jews let Muslims "live in the Holy Land", as well as Christians and other religious minorities. That's why a Muslim temple still stands where the temple of Solomon used to stand.
Unfortunately the Muslims want to "drive the Jews into the sea".

If the Muslims succeed, they won't stop at the Jews. Remember,
"When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."

If they succeed in routing the Jews from Israel, don't you see that they'll come after the Christians next. They have no concept of religious freedom.

Israel is Americas only ally in that entire region. Supporting Israel isn't just the right thing to do, it's the smart thing to do. At a time when Muslims are bringing their "jihad" to our shores we need an ally in that reason.

The enemies of Israel are the enemies of America.

What, exactly, do you propose?

[stephen]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1032058' date='Jul 27 2006, 02:35 PM']
I'm not a catholic or a follower of any religion, so I don't give a rat hiney what some pope says. [/quote]


That's probably why you're having such a difficult time understanding that it is absolutely unethical and immoral to brutally collectively punish the entire population of Lebanon.

[Anomaly]

stephen,
I'm not debating the morality of Isreal's action. We are discussing an end to the Violence. Two wrongs don't make a right. Let's look at it as purely reasonable and practical. Can you?