What's happening in Lebanon

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='stephen' post='1030968' date='Jul 25 2006, 11:34 PM']
You know that I know what you're thinking ... I think ...?

That's fine. If you start another thread I will be glad to show you and everyone else how Arab casualties have consistently dwarfed those of the Israelis since the founding of the Zionist state, and that a startling percentage of Arab casualties are children as Gideon Levy wrote in his article, "Killing Children is No Longer a Big Deal" which originally appeared in the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz.

[url="http://www.countercurrents.org/pa-levy201004.htm"]http://www.countercurrents.org/pa-levy201004.htm[/url]

But I would appreciate if this thread stayed focused on the current atrocities being perpetrated by the Israelis on the civilians of Lebanon, a large percentage of whom are Christian, btw.
[/quote]


If you can, bet it is because Terrorist hide behide innocent Arabs. Terrorist also love to hide behind children.

[quote name='cappie' post='1030970' date='Jul 25 2006, 11:35 PM']
I wasn't aware it's now a football match............
[/quote]


What are you aware of, I mean dang?

I support Israel, hence...


[center][b][size=3]GO ISRAEL![/size][/b]
[img]http://www.jewishworldreview.com/images/usa_israel_flag_large.jpg[/img][/center]

Edited July 26, 2006 by KnightofChrist

[DAF]

What KoC said, plus:

[img]http://www.maj.com/gallery/HellFire/random/hezbollah.jpg[/img]

Edited July 26, 2006 by DAF

[stephen]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1030969' date='Jul 26 2006, 01:35 AM']
If Hizbullah hides behind Lebanese civilians, then its not the fault of Israel when innocent Lebanese civilians die, [/quote]

It most certainly is the fault of the Israelis if they drop bombs in civilian populated areas. You seem to have your religion mixed up. You see, it's rabbinic Judaism which allows for the indiscriminate killing of civilians in military operations.

[url="http://www.thesanhedrin.org/en/legal/psak5766Sivan24b.html"]http://www.thesanhedrin.org/en/legal/psak5766Sivan24b.html[/url]

But, you see, the Catholic Church is absolutely opposed to such a thing. That's why Pope Benedict condemned the Israeli's actions and stated that they're unjustified:

[url="http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060716/3/2n7xz.html"]http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060716/3/2n7xz.html[/url]


[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1030969' date='Jul 26 2006, 01:35 AM']
... its Hizbullah for being cowards. [/quote]

And targeting UN posts, ambulances, refugees and children with F-16s and hellfire missile equipped helicopters is heroic, I take it?



[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1030969' date='Jul 26 2006, 01:35 AM']Also Hizbullah prides itself on killing Israeli civilians, Israel trys their best to only target the military targets.

[/quote]

... like clearly marked ambulances, for instance?

[img]http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/07/26/redcross_wideweb__470x352,0.jpg[/img]

Edited July 26, 2006 by stephen

[Ash Wednesday]

Paul Craig Roberts is a Kerry supporter and his article smacks of kneejerk angry Cindy Sheehan leftism, so I take what he says with a grain of salt.

What I'd really like to know if the Vatican has ever made a statement or held a position on the Balfour declaration and creation of the Israeli state.

[DAF]

[quote]It most certainly is the fault of the Israelis if they drop bombs in civilian areas. [/quote]
Why the double standard? You whine and moan about Israel killing civilians (which are never openly justified by the Israeli government) and then you just dismiss the terrorist attacks which are a daily occurance AND which are justified by the Muslim governments. I usually don't throw the term around, but it is my conviction that you are a genuine racist. Though, in all honesty, I don't know if it's against the Jews, or if it's against the muslims, seeing as you don't expect very much of them morally. You really need therapy.

[quote]You seem to have your religion mixed up. You see, it's rabbinic Judaism which allows for the indiscriminate killing of civilians in military operations.[/quote]
Ah...I don't remember anybody dragging religion into this. we're not discussing theological following here, we're talking political. And anyway, let's assume for a minute that yo're blatant lie is fact. how many prominent jewish leaders do you see on soap boxes telling young teenage jews to strap a bomb to themselves and go murder women and children for the glory of God?

[quote]... like clearly marked ambulances, for instance?[/quote]
Can we get a reference? Anybody can pull a picture off of google of a blown out ambulance.

[quote]But, you see, the Catholic Church is absolutely opposed to such a thing. That's why Pope Benedict condemned the Israeli's actions and stated that they're unjustified:[/quote]
Nobody is justifying indiscriminate killing here except perhaps you rooting for the terrorist cowards. If the Jews are killing innocent lebanese on purpose then they deserve to be reprimanded just like the terrorists, but the point is that it's just not happening.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='stephen' post='1030981' date='Jul 26 2006, 12:04 AM']
It most certainly is the fault of the Israelis if they drop bombs in civilian populated areas. You seem to have your religion mixed up. You see, it's rabbinic Judaism which allows for the indiscriminate killing of civilians in military operations.

[url="http://www.thesanhedrin.org/en/legal/psak5766Sivan24b.html"]http://www.thesanhedrin.org/en/legal/psak5766Sivan24b.html[/url]
[/quote]

How can I see something thats only in your head? If terroist hide in civilian populated areas, and Israel is force to attack those terrorist then it is the terrorist flaut when civilians die.

[quote name='stephen' post='1030981' date='Jul 26 2006, 12:04 AM']
But, you see, the Catholic Church is absolutely opposed to such a thing. That's why Pope Benedict condemned the Israeli's actions and stated that they're unjustified:

[url="http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060716/3/2n7xz.html"]http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060716/3/2n7xz.html[/url]
[/quote]

I love the pope dont try to divide me and my Holy Father, are you even Catholic, to USE the Holy Father for you racist anti-zionist believes, doubt it.

[quote name='stephen' post='1030981' date='Jul 26 2006, 12:04 AM']
And targeting UN posts, ambulances, refugees and children with F-16s and hellfire missile equipped helicopters is heroic, I take it?
... like clearly marked ambulances, for instance?

[img]http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/07/26/redcross_wideweb__470x352,0.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

What like "UN posts, ambulances" and etc like these?


[quote][size=3]The ambulances-for-terrorists scandal
Posted: June 2, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern

Editor's note: The included link to video footage requires Microsoft Windows Media Player to view.

© 2004 Creators Syndicate, Inc.

[b]The United Nations and Red Cross have been providing cover for terrorists – literally[/b]. And American taxpayers are footing some of the bill.

Last week, an Israeli television station aired footage of armed Arab terrorists in southern Gaza using an ambulance owned and operated by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees. Palestinian gunmen used the UNRWA emergency vehicle as getaway transportation after murdering six Israeli soldiers in Gaza City on May 11. The footage shows two ambulances with flashing lights pull onto a street. Shots and shouts ring out during the nighttime raid. A gang of militants piles into one of the supposedly neutral ambulances, clearly marked "U.N." with the agency's blue flag flying from the roof, which then speeds away from the scene.

AccessMiddleEast.org, a nonprofit global news monitoring service, posted the video (shot by a Reuters TV cameraman) on its website last week. To date, Access Middle East Managing Director Richard Bardenstein in Israel informs me, not a single U.S. television news station has expressed interest in showing the footage to American viewers.

Why should we care? Because since 1950, the United States has provided UNRWA with $2.5 billion in taxpayer subsidies – about one-third of the relief agency's total budget. And because instead of investigating this latest black eye-inducing scandal, the United Nations is blasting American troops for defending themselves against such outrageous tactics – now being emulated by Iraqi guerrilla warriors sniping at our men and women from ambulances in Fallujah.

International relief officials are in stubborn denial about the abuse of their emergency vehicles and hospital credentials by terrorists. They claim the videotaped May 11 ambulance-assisted attack was an isolated incident and that the driver was forced to transport the gunmen. But this ambulances-for-terrorists program has been going on for years. And "humanitarian" workers have been willing collaborators.

According to the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center at the Center for Special Studies, senior UNRWA employee Nahed Rashid Ahmed Attalah confessed to using his official U.N. vehicle to bypass security and smuggle arms, explosives and terrorists to and from attacks. He was in charge of distributing food supplies to Palestinian refugees. Nidal 'Abd al-Fataah 'Abdallah Nizal, a Hamas activist, worked as an UNRWA ambulance driver and admitted he had used an emergency vehicle to transport munitions to terrorists.

U.N. vehicles aren't the only ones being used by terrorists. An intensive-care ambulance carrying the acronym of the Palestine Red Crescent Society was used to deliver an explosive belt found underneath a stretcher on which a sick child was lying in spring 2002. Female suicide bomber Wafa Idris, who blew herself up in a January 2002 attack in Jerusalem, was a medical secretary for the PRCS. Her recruiter was an ambulance driver for the same organization. PRCS receives financial support from governments and organizations around the world, including the American Red Cross and International Committee of the Red Cross.

The UNRWA has long been suspected of providing aid and comfort to terrorists. Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., chairman of the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare, recently documented how "buildings and warehouses under UNRWA supervision are allegedly being used as storage areas for Palestinian ammunition and counterfeit currency factories." Cantor's 2002 report also noted that UNRWA hosts summer camps in martyrdom for young terrorists-in-training. Rep. Chris Smith, R-N.J., has also lobbied for increased scrutiny of UNRWA funding, which has been used to publish anti-Semitic textbooks and posters in schools that "glorify homicide bombers and the slaughter of innocents."

Moreover, according to Rep. Smith, a UNRWA school hosted a Hamas rally by a key Hamas leader in July 2001 and another UNRWA employee praised homicide bombers, proclaiming: "The road to Palestine passes through the blood of the fallen, and these fallen have written history with parts of their flesh and their bodies."

While jihadists gain shelter in its emergency vehicles, the U.N. continues to lambaste the U.S. for assorted wartime "atrocities." Not one more American dime should go to fund the bloody self-righteousness of the world's most generous terrorist relief organization.[/size]

[/quote]


[quote name='DAF' post='1030986' date='Jul 26 2006, 12:17 AM']
[color="#FF0000"]Nobody is justifying indiscriminate killing[/color] here except perhaps you rooting for the terrorist cowards. If the Jews are killing innocent lebanese on purpose then they deserve to be reprimanded just like the terrorists, but the point is that it's just not happening.
[/quote]

Agreed.

[jiyoung]

(I think you guys thought that the "football game" comment was made by the stephen guy--it was actually cappie. I don't think you guys meant to say those things to him. Just letting you know. Carry on!)

[stephen]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1030983' date='Jul 26 2006, 02:12 AM']
Paul Craig Roberts is a Kerry supporter and his article smacks of kneejerk angry Cindy Sheehan leftism, so I take what he says with a grain of salt. [/quote]

Paul Craig Roberts is a Former Assistant of the Treasury in the Reagan administration, but really, I don't care what his politics are either way. I agree with what he states in the article.

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1030983' date='Jul 26 2006, 02:12 AM']What I'd really like to know if the Vatican has ever made a statement or held a position on the Balfour declaration and creation of the Israeli state.
[/quote]

The only pope to be canonized a saint since 1672, Pope St. Pius X, refused to acknowledge the Zionists plan to create a Jewish state in Palestine. Here is his response to Zionist, Theodore Herzl who lobbied for his support:

[quote]"We are unfavorable to the movement. We cannot prevent Jews from going to Jerusalem, but we can [b]never[/b] sanction it. The ground of Jerusalem, if it were not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the church I cannot answer you otherwise. The Jews have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people. Should the Jews manage to set foot on the once promised old-new land, the missionaries of the Church stand prepared to baptize them." (Pope St. Pius X) [/quote]

The great Pope Saint's position was maintained to varying degrees by his successors until only recently. The Zionist state was not recognized by the Vatican until 1993.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='jiyoung' post='1030989' date='Jul 26 2006, 12:50 AM']
(I think you guys thought that the "football game" comment was made by the stephen guy--it was actually cappie. I don't think you guys meant to say those things to him. Just letting you know. Carry on!)
[/quote]

Honestly I knew... and I apolygize, cappie is cool, and I love his standing up for The Church in Bolivia.


[quote name='stephen' post='1030990' date='Jul 26 2006, 12:54 AM']
Paul Craig Roberts is a Former Assistant of the Treasury in the Reagan administration, but really, I don't care what his politics are either way. I agree with what he states in the article.[/quote]

Alot of people agree with what they read in Mein Kampf, but that doesnt make what you read true, or that one should believe ever jew hating wacko artcle one may read.

[quote name='stephen' post='1030990' date='Jul 26 2006, 12:54 AM']
The only pope to be canonized a saint since 1672, Pope St. Pius X, refused to acknowledge the Zionists plan to create a Jewish state in Palestine. Here is his response to Zionist, Theodore Herzl who lobbied for his support:
The great Pope Saint's position was maintained to varying degrees by his successors until only recently. The Zionist state was not recognized by the Vatican until 1993.
[/quote]


So popes make mistakes, so what? But what are you saying Israel should not be a state?

Edited July 26, 2006 by KnightofChrist

[stephen]

[quote name='DAF' post='1030986' date='Jul 26 2006, 02:17 AM']
Why the double standard? You whine and moan about Israel killing civilians (which are never openly justified by the Israeli government) and then you just dismiss the terrorist attacks which are a daily occurance AND which are justified by the Muslim governments.[/quote]

Why the straw man? I have not dismissed any terrorist attacks perpetrated by anyone. I'm focused on the Israeli's terrorist activities at the moment.

[quote name='DAF' post='1030986' date='Jul 26 2006, 02:17 AM']I usually don't throw the term around, but it is my conviction that you are a genuine racist. Though, in all honesty, I don't know if it's against the Jews, or if it's against the muslims, seeing as you don't expect very much of them morally. You really need therapy.[/quote]

Seeing as how I haven't stated anything at all pertaining to race, I think it's safe to ignore this nonsense.

[quote name='DAF' post='1030986' date='Jul 26 2006, 02:17 AM']Ah...I don't remember anybody dragging religion into this. we're not discussing theological following here, we're talking political. [/quote]

This is a Catholic forum. We'll talk religion, despite your attempt to frame the debate your way.

[quote name='DAF' post='1030986' date='Jul 26 2006, 02:17 AM']And anyway, let's assume for a minute that yo're blatant lie is fact. how many prominent jewish leaders do you see on soap boxes telling young teenage jews to strap a bomb to themselves and go murder women and children for the glory of God?[/quote]

It's a well established fact that a great many adherants of rabbinic Judaism view all Arabs as "Amalek" and that it's a "mitzvah" to "exterminte" them all.


[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1270038.stm"]Rabbi Calls for Annihilation of Arabs[/url]


And the Israeli's don't need bomb belts. They have the fifth most powerful military in the world c/o the US taxpayer.


[quote name='DAF' post='1030986' date='Jul 26 2006, 02:17 AM']Can we get a reference? Anybody can pull a picture off of google of a blown out ambulance.[/quote]

It's an AP photo from this online newspaper:

[url="http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/lebanons-pain-seen-in-a-mothers-heartbreak/2006/07/26/1153816189373.html"]http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/lebanons-...3816189373.html[/url]

also see:

[url="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19915049-2703,00.html"]Civilians killed as Israelis target ambulances[/url]



[quote name='DAF' post='1030986' date='Jul 26 2006, 02:17 AM']Nobody is justifying indiscriminate killing here ... [/quote]

Actually, that's exactly what the strangely named superZionist, "knightforchrist" and yourself are doing. You've both justified the massive civilian casualties caused by the Israeli bombing of civilian populated areas based upon the notion that there might be some terrorists hidden there.

The religious justification for your position is founded in rabbinic Judaism, not Catholicism:

[url="http://www.thesanhedrin.org/en/legal/psak5766Sivan24b.html"]http://www.thesanhedrin.org/en/legal/psak5766Sivan24b.html[/url]


[quote name='DAF' post='1030986' date='Jul 26 2006, 02:17 AM']... except perhaps you rooting for the terrorist cowards. [/quote]

That is what's called a lie.

[quote name='DAF' post='1030986' date='Jul 26 2006, 02:17 AM']If the Jews are killing innocent lebanese on purpose then they deserve to be reprimanded just like the terrorists, but the point is that it's just not happening.
[/quote]

It just comes down to denial of the blatantly obvious, doesn't it. You either are not facing the facts or you're attempting to mislead people. God knows which.

Edited July 26, 2006 by stephen

[misereremi]

[quote name='cappie' post='1030957' date='Jul 26 2006, 05:59 AM']
I don't think it's helpful to anyone at this moment.....
[/quote]

Totally agree. There is nothing for Catholics to "support" here except calls for peace and the stance of our Pope: "cease fire IMMEDIATELY"!

[stephen]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1030987' date='Jul 26 2006, 02:27 AM']
... are you even Catholic, to USE the Holy Father for you ... anti-zionist believes, doubt it.


[/quote]

I've quoted a Pope Saint who plainly stated that Catholics could never sanction the Zionist movement. If you can present equally weighty support for the strange notion which you seem to be laboring under--that Catholics should be Zionists, I'd sure be interested in seeing it.

Edited July 26, 2006 by stephen

[Anomaly]

stephen,
I am open minded on this issue. (Not so open minded as cappie who disregards the reasons and thinks both sides should just 'be nice'. LOL)
Please respond to what I've read on the AP.
Isreal had pulled out of Lebanon after occupying it on the condition that the Lebonese gov't actually govern it and Hezbollah does not move in. Hezbollag moves in, keeps the legitimate Lebonese gov't out or ineffectual, accepts $$ from Syria and Iran, and continually launches attacks into Isreal. Isreal, with $$ from the US (who are enemies of Syria and Iran and Hezbollah) responds to the missle attacks and kidnappings with overwelming force. Hezbollah's 'militia', like Iraq's, hides behind the skirts of civillian women and children's schools since it's not a traditional military.

The war would stop in 24 hours if:
Hezbollah returns the kidnapped soldiers.
Lenonese gov't governs as promised when Isreal pulled out.
Hezbollah stops shooting missles.
Isreal withdraws back to it's borders.

Which party is dragging their feet?

[homeschoolmom]

The Holy Father has called us to PRAY FOR PEACE! That is the side we should be on.

[toledo_jesus]

praying for peace is the best solution, because these Middle Easterners are too stiff-necked to actually agree on anything.

Hezbollah and Israel have been spoiling for a fight for years. This has been brewing...they'll quit eventually.