jswranch Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Before you left the Catholic Church, did you honestly believe Jesus is present (blood, body, soul and divinity) in the Eucharist? (In a talk with Rosalind Moss, she stated no ex-Catholic she has ever met truely believed in Transubstantiation before leaving.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 moved this to where most of the ex-catholics are found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eutychus Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 [quote]Before you left the Catholic Church, did you honestly believe Jesus is present (blood, body, soul and divinity) in the Eucharist? [/quote] No. I have a brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 along with a healthy dose of pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phatdaddy Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 [quote name='jswranch' post='1019794' date='Jul 8 2006, 03:54 AM'] Before you left the Catholic Church, did you honestly believe Jesus is present (blood, body, soul and divinity) in the Eucharist? (In a talk with Rosalind Moss, she stated no ex-Catholic she has ever met truely believed in Transubstantiation before leaving.) [/quote] I think you have raised the most profound issue facing the Catholic Church. A lack of real faith in the Eucharist. I've heard it stated that only about 30% of all Catholics in this country believe in the truth about the Eucharist. Do you realize that means there are perhaps 30 or 40 or maybe 50 million so called Catholics that do not believe in the Catholic understanding of the Real Presence. Is it any wonder that the largest Christian Church in this Country is fallen away Catholics. 40 years of bad catechesis is bearing fruit. Mr. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 No. It is a piece of bread. Most Catholics do not know the teaching of Transubstantiation. I told three Catholic friends after Mass about Transubstantiation, this was while I was on my way out.... two told me...'NO WAY!' and didnt believe me when I explained what it meant. One said, "well I believe like the Protestants do"... I have faith in God, I do not have faith in a piece of bread. Jesus himself said this: Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? The piece of bread is how Rome gets its power, it tells people ONLY WE have the VALID wafer-"God." You are stuck with us no matter how corrupt things get... Christians receive Jesus Christ via FAITH, and form a relationship with Him. Catholics "receive" what they believe is Jesus Christ going back for weekly 'fill-ups" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 How come Jesus said He was the Bread of Life and that His Flesh is REAL FOOD and His Blood is REAL DRINK? Those who left Him after He said this left because they understood Him literally. Note that He didn't call after them and say, "Hey, I was just speaking figuratively!" As for "weekly fill-ups," if Jesus said we have to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood in order to have life in us, then wouldn't we want to be able to consume His Flesh and Blood as much as possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalblujay Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Saint Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 It is indeed a hard teaching to accept, and thus I suspect that many ex-Catholics, like the Jews in John 6, depart in disbelief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like a Child Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Just to put a spin on things. . .I am a former Protestant who is now among the 30% of Catholics who actually BELIEVE that the Eucharist IS LITERALLY the body and blood of Christ. Go figure! : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirsty-for-orthodoxy Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 The Eucharist is not a leash that holds us to the Catholic Church through the thick and thin. There are many out there that don't associate themselves with the CC outside of Mass on Sundays where they still recieve communion. So describing it as a leash would invalid. True, most people who stick with the CC are drawn closer to it throught the Eucharist but reducing to be a choker hold on the Church would be an injustice. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jswranch Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) [quote name='phatdaddy' post='1023561' date='Jul 13 2006, 07:18 AM']... I've heard it stated that only about 30% of all Catholics in this country believe in the truth about the Eucharist. ...[/quote] Remember, statisticians can ask questions in ways to get the results they want. [quote name='Budge' post='1023635' date='Jul 13 2006, 09:49 AM']From Budge and Eutychus: "No."[/quote] Thank you for helping me support my theory. Your additional comments show that ex-Catholics in years past rejected their faith based on what they never understood or believed it in the first place. [quote]Catholics "receive" what they believe is Jesus Christ going back for weekly 'fill-ups"[/quote] Since my conversion from being a 'bible christian' I go daily, not weekly. Besides, we are only required receive once a year, but attend (sit in pew) attend weekly. Edited July 14, 2006 by jswranch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jswranch Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1023635' date='Jul 13 2006, 09:49 AM']Most Catholics do not know the teaching of Transubstantiation.[/quote] Hence another reason why Catholic truth is not decided by popular opinion. [quote]I have faith in God, I do not have faith in a piece of bread.[/quote] Good, neither do we. The question is whether God becomes what looks like a piece of bread to our fallen eyes. [quote]The piece of bread is how Rome gets its power, it tells people ONLY WE have the VALID wafer-"God."[/quote] Actually, no. The SSPX, Orthodox, Nestorians, Old Catholics, Anglicans with the "Dutch Touch," Coptics and a few others have the valid sacrament. [quote]You are stuck with [the Catholic Church] no matter how corrupt things get...[/quote] Yes, you are correct. Just as Israel could not touch or reject those appointed, neither can we. No matter how bad King Saul was, he could not be touched as he was appointed by God. No matter how corrupt the money changers were, the people of Israel could not stop their obligation to the Temple. No matter how bad the high-priests got (Ciaphas), he still had the infallible gift of prophesy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Budge' post='1023635' date='Jul 13 2006, 09:49 AM'] No. It is a piece of bread. Most Catholics do not know the teaching of Transubstantiation. I told three Catholic friends after Mass about Transubstantiation, this was while I was on my way out.... two told me...'NO WAY!' and didnt believe me when I explained what it meant. One said, "well I believe like the Protestants do"... I have faith in God, I do not have faith in a piece of bread. Jesus himself said this: Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? The piece of bread is how Rome gets its power, it tells people ONLY WE have the VALID wafer-"God." You are stuck with us no matter how corrupt things get... Christians receive Jesus Christ via FAITH, and form a relationship with Him. Catholics "receive" what they believe is Jesus Christ going back for weekly 'fill-ups" [/quote] Some of the "Bible Christians" here would do well to read John 6. [quote]If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. [b]For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed.[/b] He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me: and I in him. [/quote](John 6:52-57) [quote]Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard; and who can hear it? [/quote] (John 6:61) Apparently, some still find this saying hard. [quote]But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you? If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?* It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that did not believe and who he was that would betray him. And he said: Therefore did I say to you that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father. [b]After this, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him.[/b] [/quote](John 6:63-67) Edited July 14, 2006 by Socrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avemaria40 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 I do not have faith in a piece of bread, I have faith in God, who humbled Himself so much that He gives His Flesh and Blood to us in bread and wine. Jesus said, "This is my body" not this is like my body and if people didn't understand His parables, He would explain that He was speaking figuratively but He didn't which means He was speaking literally. Also, just because most Catholics don't believe doesn't make it true. For along time Americans believed that black people were not people and only fit to be slaves. Does that change the fact that they were still human? Most people didn't know that atoms existed, doesn't change the fact that everything is made of atoms. To those who say they don't believe because they "have a brain": Are you saying we don't have brains because we do believe? Catholics aren't mindless peons who can't think for themselves. I thought for myself and chose, yes chose, the Catholic Church after investigating the Protestant churches. I am a very skeptical person but looking into the Church, everything made sense. Investigating it, it was the only one that was based on the Scriptures, it is the historical Church founded by Christ, and every miracle or apparition that has come out of it can not be proven to be of natural origin. No one twisted my arm around my back and told me to convert or die, I made this choice on my own and the grace I recieve in the Eucharist helps me grow in Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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