Do you believe the Medjigoure "apparitions" to be

[Dismas]

I doubt that those apparitions are real. I also believe that they are not of direct satanic origin either. This is the work of humans being fallen humans, with some pious fraud mixed in. Time and time again, the Vatican has studied Medjugorje, finding [b]nothing supernatural[/b].

Is this Our Lady of Leponto, who beat back the invincible Turks in the hour of need? Is this Our Lady of Lourdes, whose shrine heals the sick to this very day? Is this the same Queen of Heaven that repelled the Swedish Deluge at Jasna Góra, broke the back of the Bolshevik army in Częstochowa in 1920, and made the Red Army tremble yet again when Pope John Paul returned?

Is this is the same Mary who visited St. Juan Diego? When he spoke to the bishop, and was dismissed, did Mary let him down? Did Mary tell him to foment an insurrection against the bishop?

No! She cleaved to the heart of that bishop with an unexpected sign he could not, would not deny.

I cannot see the apparitions of Medjugorje to be real.

P.S. I wonder how many miracles would be reported if the world converged around Walla Walla Washington, set up around the clock confessionals and hundreds of Masses a day. I think far more.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Dismas

[Apotheoun]

The "visions" at Medjugorje are irrelevant to my spiritual life.

[kateri05]

i'm actually very interested in its authenticity and CHurch's position because an upcoming grad class at steubie has 2 or 3 texts on this apparition alone.


i thought that was unusual since it wasn't officially approved

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1383308' date='Sep 11 2007, 03:30 AM']The "visions" at Medjugorje are irrelevant to my spiritual life.[/quote]

[prose]

I think what bugs me the most is that I keep hearing that the Church can not make an "official" statement until the visions end. If it is fake, why not just declare it fake? If it isn't, why not have some more support. Seems like the Church is being a bit of a fence-sitter about this one. That is strange.

[prose]

I have one question about the sun miracles. I have seen videos on youtube about them and things... Why doesn't everyone see them that are there? Why only some? And why, if only some can see them, can they be videotaped and then everyone can see them? Seems strange.

I am not sure what to think. I appreciate Mary, but apparitions have little effect on my prayer and faith life.

[chelsea]

I dont have much time so i cant quote from posts right now but here's my .02 on medjugorje:

I have been there.
1. [b]Many people will say "it is condemned by the local bishop.[/b]" the local bishop has left the judgement up to the Church. He does not believe in Fatima or Lourdes, refuses to visit Medjurogje except for confirmations, and will not speak to the visionaries. He has not done an official investigation.
[url="http://medjugorje.org/faq.htm#no16"]http://medjugorje.org/faq.htm#no16[/url]

2. [b]It has never been recognized by the vatican. [/b] It cannot be recognized until it is over. John Paul II did not visit medjugorje because he felt that it would be "approving" something (whether officially or unofficially) that was not yet able to be proven. He had a personal and private devotion to Medjugorje.
[url="http://medjugorje.org/pope.htm"]http://medjugorje.org/pope.htm[/url]

3. [b]Our Lady said that all faith's are equal.[/b] [url="http://medjugorje.org/faq.htm#no20"]http://medjugorje.org/faq.htm#no20[/url]

4. [b]Some messages are kept secret.[/b] They will be revealed in due time. There are 10 secrets to Medjugorje, just as there were secrets to Fatima, which have all been revealed.

5. There have been scientific studies in Medjugorje, which prove that there are apparitions happening. [url="http://medjugorje.org/faq.htm#no11"]http://medjugorje.org/faq.htm#no11[/url]


Basically, I have been there, and it is an incredible place. I saw the sun dancing in the sky. I smelt roses in a place where roses cannot grow, at the hour of Our Lady's daily apparition. I was present for one of her apparitions when she gave her monthly message. If the Church decides that Medjugorje is false, then I will honor the Church. But until then, i do believe.

[dairygirl4u2c]

are you sure the sun was dancing, and not just blurry or something? i know someone who said they think it was dancing, but concede they're not really sure what they saw. could be they are overanalyzing their event. but you have to be cautious. incidentally, he did take a firmer position on the birds that sang on cue at her apparition time. (whgich would have to be trained orsomething to argue against)

[chelsea]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1383760' date='Sep 11 2007, 08:09 PM']are you sure the sun was dancing, and not just blurry or something? i know someone who said they think it was dancing, but concede they're not really sure what they saw. could be they are overanalyzing their event. but you have to be cautious. incidentally, he did take a firmer position on the birds that sang on cue at her apparition time. (whgich would have to be trained orsomething to argue against)[/quote]

I know what i saw, and i have it on video. I did not make it up. I am not overanalyzing the event.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='chelsea' post='1383759' date='Sep 11 2007, 06:07 PM']2. [b]It has never been recognized by the vatican. [/b] It cannot be recognized until it is over. John Paul II did not visit medjugorje because he felt that it would be "approving" something (whether officially or unofficially) that was not yet able to be proven. He had a personal and private devotion to Medjugorje.
[url="http://medjugorje.org/pope.htm"]http://medjugorje.org/pope.htm[/url]

3. [b]Our Lady said that all faith's are equal.[/b] [url="http://medjugorje.org/faq.htm#no20"]http://medjugorje.org/faq.htm#no20[/url][/quote]

Interesting. Thank you. More than enough of a confirmation for me.

[Jaime]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1383760' date='Sep 11 2007, 07:09 PM']are you sure the sun was dancing, and not just blurry or something? i know someone who said they think it was dancing, but concede they're not really sure what they saw. could be they are overanalyzing their event. but you have to be cautious. incidentally, he did take a firmer position on the birds that sang on cue at her apparition time. (whgich would have to be trained orsomething to argue against)[/quote]


Count me amongst those who have witnessed the sun dancing miracle. And yes I'm sure. I was able to stare directly at the sun for several minutes without squinting or tearing up. And I still have my retinas intact

[Laurentina1975]

[quote name='jezic' post='1019720' date='Jul 8 2006, 12:37 AM']demons cannot be divided against themselves. The apparitions have reignited the faith of millions.[/quote]


I love your faith....I added you as a friend. Hope you do not mind.

And I do believe....

[fides quarens intellectum]

irrelevant to my spiritual life, but get annoyed when Medjugorje enthusiasts credit/attribute things in other peoples' lives [especially my own!] to OL of Medjugorje: if they want to believe in something that Rome hasn't signed off on yet, i wish they'd keep it to themselves instead of pushing it on people who want to wait for the Church's official approval/disapproval. i think it is great if people are growing closer to Jesus due to visits to that area, but i wish they wouldn't in turn authoritatively proclaim and defend the visions as true without waiting for the Church.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1383203' date='Sep 10 2007, 09:59 PM']I doubt that those apparitions are real. I also believe that they are not of direct satanic origin either. This is the work of humans being fallen humans, with some pious fraud mixed in. Time and time again, the Vatican has studied Medjugorje, finding [b]nothing supernatural[/b].

Is this Our Lady of Leponto, who beat back the invincible Turks in the hour of need? Is this Our Lady of Lourdes, whose shrine heals the sick to this very day? Is this the same Queen of Heaven that repelled the Swedish Deluge at Jasna Góra, broke the back of the Bolshevik army in Częstochowa in 1920, and made the Red Army tremble yet again when Pope John Paul returned?

Is this is the same Mary who visited St. Juan Diego? When he spoke to the bishop, and was dismissed, did Mary let him down? Did Mary tell him to foment an insurrection against the bishop?

No! She cleaved to the heart of that bishop with an unexpected sign he could not, would not deny.

I cannot see the apparitions of Medjugorje to be real.

P.S. I wonder how many miracles would be reported if the world converged around Walla Walla Washington, set up around the clock confessionals and hundreds of Masses a day. I think far more.[/quote]
Good points. I agree.

These silly and never-ending "apparitions" and their banal and inane "messages" are hogwash, though.

[Dismas]

I do not accept Medjugorje, and merely because a bishop does not accept Fatima or Lourdes does not alter his authority on the matter.

I also don't accept Garabandal, which shares the same unapproved and uncondemned status as Medjugorje, even if St. Padre Pio praised it.

As for miracles, I can drive 30 miles or so to the National Shrine and Basilica of St. Mary, Help of Christians with a penniless, crippled Catholic and pray the rosary together. At least that has a proven track record without the expensive plane tickets.

Edited September 12, 2007 by Dismas