Do you believe the Medjigoure "apparitions" to be

[RC_]

[quote name='2 Kings']20:8 And Hezekiah said unto Isaiah, What shall be the sign that the LORD will heal me, and that I shall go up into the house of the LORD the third day?

20:9 And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees?

20:10 And Hezekiah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees.

20:11 And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.
[/quote]

More demonic sun worship....

[Katholikos]

QUOTE(Katholikos @ Nov 9 2006, 01:38 AM)

A camera crew from a TV station in my city went to Medjugorje a few years ago and brought back film of the "sun event." The reporter became a Catholic.

You wrote yesterday: "I'd love to have a supernatural experience like that, but most often I think it's people just giving in to fancy."

You wrote today:
[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1115760' date='Nov 9 2006, 12:37 AM']
I don't think that proves anything, even though it's really cool.
[/quote]


Well, it proves that this really happened and that it wasn't just "people giving in to fancy." It separates fact from hallucination or fiction.

--------------------------------------
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

Edited November 9, 2006 by Katholikos

[RC_]

Still more sun worship:

[quote name='Gen']
37:9 Then he dreamed still another dream and told it to his brothers, and said, “Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me.”
[/quote]

[quote name='Job']
9:7 He commands the sun, and it does not rise;He seals off the stars
[/quote]

[God Conquers]

So now, SEEING something miraculous means worshipping that thing.

Only blind people are going to heaven.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1116106' date='Nov 9 2006, 05:47 PM']
QUOTE(Katholikos @ Nov 9 2006, 01:38 AM)

A camera crew from a TV station in my city went to Medjugorje a few years ago and brought back film of the "sun event." The reporter became a Catholic.

You wrote yesterday: "I'd love to have a supernatural experience like that, but most often I think it's people just giving in to fancy."

You wrote today:
Well, it proves that this really happened and that it wasn't just "people giving in to fancy." It separates fact from hallucination or fiction.

--------------------------------------
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!
[/quote]
Medjugorje just doesn't do it for me, sorry. I'm not convinced, and I suppose that it's impossible for me to be. I'd have to see it myself.

[123]

[quote]This is nothing new, the daughter of Chaldea continues to deceive...

THE QUEEN OF HEAVEN'S PLAN OF DECEPTION
[/quote]

Hilariously, the people wrote this website are way off their mark, and also [b] you and those people need to examine Matthew 7:1-2[/b]

...But, I love the picture on the website.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Budge' post='1115936' date='Nov 9 2006, 10:52 AM']
You folks do realize God HATES Sun worship?

Paganism is related to the Sun worship and this stuff is part of the Catholic church--I am realizing the diabolical connection to the so-called Sun Miracle that happpened at Fatima.

[/quote]
Gazing at something unusual and terrifying is not the same as worshipping it.

I have yet to hear of a single witness to Fatima's "miracle of the sun" going on to become a pagan sun-worshipper.

Silly, even by Budge-standards.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1116364' date='Nov 9 2006, 08:41 PM']
Medjugorje just doesn't do it for me, sorry. I'm not convinced, and I suppose that it's impossible for me to be. I'd have to see it myself.
[/quote]No one has asked you to believe it. The Church doesn't even ask you to believe Lourdes or Fatima. It's your choice. I'm only saying that you should not attribute the "sun event" to "people's fancy" or hallucinations when there is evidence to the contrary. There is a video available which shows the "sun event" also; I gave my copy to my nephew. I do not claim it is supernatural. I make no claims except to report that it happened, it has been documented, and that millions have seen it.

I wrote a report about it in 1994 immediately after it happened the second (and last) time on the Feast of the Assumption here in Phoenix. I don't say it never happened again. I say only that I didn't see it again.

And, BTW, it is a-w-e-s-o-m-e!

It'll cure most people of atheism in a flash.

If the Church declares that the apparitions are or are not supernatural, it will not change my experience. It is what it is.

=============================
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[Budge]

[quote]
Gazing at something unusual and terrifying is not the same as worshipping it.

I have yet to hear of a single witness to Fatima's "miracle of the sun" going on to become a pagan sun-worshipper.

Silly, even by Budge-standards.[/quote]

God doesnt fool around with magic tricks and light shows...

His miracles are true life-changing ones.

This "miracle" gave no glory to God but drew people's ATTENTION [at the very least] to the sun instead of God.

[God Conquers]

Really?

I think we've already seen evidence, stated from personal experience by people posting here, that this type of event drew them directly to God.

If you saw someone be able to walk after being healed by the Spirit, you would be drawn to that person instead of to God?

That's wierd.

[RC_]

[quote name='Budge' post='1116740' date='Nov 10 2006, 10:54 AM']
God doesnt fool around with magic tricks and light shows...

His miracles are true life-changing ones.

This "miracle" gave no glory to God but drew people's ATTENTION [at the very least] to the sun instead of God.
[/quote]

Explain the passage from 2 Kings I posted...

[Socrates]

[quote name='Budge' post='1116740' date='Nov 10 2006, 10:54 AM']
God doesnt fool around with magic tricks and light shows...

His miracles are true life-changing ones.

This "miracle" gave no glory to God but drew people's ATTENTION [at the very least] to the sun instead of God.
[/quote]
You could make the same accusations about [i]any[/i] miracle.

I can imagine a first century Budge speaking of Christ's changing water to wine or the multiplication of the loaves and fishes: "God doesnt fool around with magic tricks. These "miracles" gave no glory to God but drew people's ATTENTION [at the very least] to food and wine instead of God."

And your accusations of every Catholic miracle being from the devil don't hold much weight in themselves. The scribes and pharisees accused Christ Himself of working His miracles through the power of "Beelzebub, the Prince of Devils." (Matt. 12:24)

And after witnessing the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, some atheists who had come to scoff were converted to Christ. I have heard of no one leaving Christ to worship the sun (or some similar nonsense) after Fatima.
Obviously only God Himself would have such power over the heavens. No one believes the sun "danced" on its own power.

Edited November 11, 2006 by Socrates

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Budge' post='1116740' date='Nov 10 2006, 10:54 AM']
God doesnt fool around with magic tricks and light shows...

His miracles are true life-changing ones.

This "miracle" gave no glory to God but drew people's ATTENTION [at the very least] to the sun instead of God.
[/quote]

Even though I don't believe Medjugorje is from heaven, how many people at the time of Moses' turning his staff into a snake were converted? None that were recorded in Scripture. In fact, it seems to have had the opposite effect. If you look at Exodus 7:13 you'll see that actually Pharoah's heart was hardened right after this very event.

Edited November 11, 2006 by goldenchild17

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1116576' date='Nov 10 2006, 01:34 AM']
No one has asked you to believe it. The Church doesn't even ask you to believe Lourdes or Fatima. It's your choice. I'm only saying that you should not attribute the "sun event" to "people's fancy" or hallucinations when there is evidence to the contrary. There is a video available which shows the "sun event" also; I gave my copy to my nephew. I do not claim it is supernatural. I make no claims except to report that it happened, it has been documented, and that millions have seen it.

I wrote a report about it in 1994 immediately after it happened the second (and last) time on the Feast of the Assumption here in Phoenix. I don't say it never happened again. I say only that I didn't see it again.

And, BTW, it is a-w-e-s-o-m-e!

It'll cure most people of atheism in a flash.

If the Church declares that the apparitions are or are not supernatural, it will not change my experience. It is what it is.

=============================
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!
[/quote]
yes, I realize I'm not required to believe it. If I were, then I would. I just don't like Medjugorje and don't understand what all the fuss is about...

[mortify]

Peace,

Like some friends here I'm skeptical and I'm not convinced by the saying, "miracles are occurring so it must be true!" Miracles occur in just about every religion and we can't take this as evidence for them. Miracles can confirm what is objectively true, I'm not sure this can be said about Medjigoure. Perhaps the Holy Mother is responding to the sincere faith the believers bring, but its hard to say what's going on.