Do you believe the Medjigoure "apparitions" to be

[Deb]

Well, first of all, I think that those who profess the apparitions to not be valid should not spew that out unless they have been to Medjugorje. Pope John Paul II said that if he was not the pope, he would be in Medjugorje and he met with visionaries on many occasions.

Second, the Bishop in that area has had to make it clear that his "opinion" on these events is only that, and not of any decision by the Catholic Church. One should really research the history of that area and the political and religious aspects of all of this before quoting this Bishop on anything.

Third, If this is the work of Satan, he has really screwed up big time or gone insane and changed sides completely in hopes he can be redeemed.

I went to Medjugorje this last March. I only went because a seminarian friend of my sister's paid for most of my trip. He had gone there and ended up quitting his job in New York and entering the seminary. He will be ordained in three years. When I went, it was only because it wouldn't cost me much, I could get out of the country for the first time and I knew we got to spend a day in Dubrovnik. At the time I went I had been out of the church for 35 years. I had been divorced for two, suicidal for the first year after my divorce and had no faith in anything at all. I couldn't even say that I believed Jesus was the Son of God.
I was adamament that I would only go to church once and would not listen to prayer ad nausem with this group of holy people. My sister had other hopes for me there.
The second night there, still jet lagged, I climbed Cross Mountain at 3:00 in the morning, in the dark, to watch the sun rise. I was wearing my Converse tennies. I have no cartilage in my right ankle and usually just mowing the lawn would make it almost impossible to walk for an hour or two. I went up and down that mountain with no pain or swelling and have not had any, not once, since then.
After my nine days there, I never wanted to come home. I went to mass every day. I met with three of the visionaries. I was hit from every side with things that could not possibly be coincidences. By the day I witnessed the miracle of the sun, when I stared into a bright sun in a cloudless sky for fifteen minutes, watching an incredible show of the sun dancing and throwing off beautiful colors (with eight other people) I finally had to stop because I could not comprehend what was even happening, I had to admit that God existed. I was terrified by that revelation.I broke down and cried like a baby in instant knowledge of what an incredible sinner I was.

Today, almost ten months later, I go to mass 3 to 5 times a week. I go to adoration before mass when I can and also on the days when I can not go to daily mass. I am in RCIA and will be confirmed in the Catholic Church at Easter Vigil. My entire life has changed, God has transformed every thing about me from my taste in music to what books I read. I haven't turned my tv on in months. I pray the Liturgy daily. I see the miracle of the sun every day the sun shines. I have quit smoking dope and cigarettes. (My staples for all of my adult life)
The Holy Spirit is an active presence in my life bringing me such joy and peace that there is no mortal frame of reference in which to explain it. Praise God for these graces!
Two days after I am confirmed and the day after Easter I will fly back to Medjugorje to give thanks to the blessed mother and the people of Medjugorje. The people showed me what it is like to be in a place where people actually live their faith, not just pull it out for Sunday mass.

I can say that I don't believe the Medjugorje (correct spelling by the way) apparitions to be true, I know they are true. I knew it when Jacov spoke, when Vicka spoke and when Marijana spoke. I knew it when I was there for an annual apparition. I knew it when my entire life was changed by the Blessed Mother's intercession on my behalf and Jesus offered me his hand. In Medjugorje. Like my sister said, you can't really explain it to someone who has not experienced the peace of the village any more than she was able to explain to me her love of God. She tried for six solid years. Now I understand.

Sorry to just spill out my conversion story but, Medjugorje is where it started and only God knows where it will end. I will say that I urge anyone who can, to go. There is no other place on earth like this village.

Edited December 9, 2007 by Deb

[Deb]

Ooops, my post came up three times. Hmmm, wonder why?

Edited December 9, 2007 by Deb

[Deb]

Sorry number two.
I should add that I have full respect for the church in taking their time with any formal decision on these apparitions. There are many reasons for them holding back and I don't really blame them. Pope John Paull II would have come out for Medjugorje if not for these reasons.
However, if they wait until the apparitions end, they won't need to issue any statement. The validity will be known by all the world. If you believe the messages of course.

Edited December 9, 2007 by Deb

[Maggyie]

When did Papa John Paul say he would like to come to Medjugorje? Is there any kind of article on this? I have heard this in several places (that he personally thought highly of what was happening there) but I have never seen any documentation. Is it out there?

[st-annes]

Has there ever been an apparition that was officially accepted primarily on the basis of the popularity of the site and the claims about miracles allegedly experienced by the visitors? I'm not sure whether I think Medjugorje is valid, but so many people have visited there and claimed something happened to them, I'm wondering if they'll try to make the case that even apart from the visions, the results of the pilgrimage constitute some kind of additional meaning. Just a thought.

[Deb]

Several of the visionaries were told by Pope John Paul II of his desire to be in Medjugorje. He also expressed good things about it to many. Here are some links. As he could not make any official declaration of his beliefs, I guess each will have to determine whether or not they believe the statements of Priests, Bishops and Presidents.

[url="http://medjugorje.org/pope.htm"]http://medjugorje.org/pope.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.medjugorje.org/frjozoletter.htm"]http://www.medjugorje.org/frjozoletter.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.spiritdaily.org/MHB%20editorials/The%20pope/popemedjugorje.htm"]http://www.spiritdaily.org/MHB%20editorial...emedjugorje.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.queenofpeace.ca/Pope_JPII_Medjugorje.htm"]http://www.queenofpeace.ca/Pope_JPII_Medjugorje.htm[/url]


Deb

[Dismas]

Mary is Queen of Heaven, the Queen of the Apostles, the Queen of Angels, the Mother of the Church. Mary is no weakling, and she can be quite persuasive.

No mere bishop could defy her if she desired to be known.

Social and political views cannot withstand her; is she not be the one to stop the errors of Russia?

What of the numerous miracles attributed to Mary? Need we reflect upon St. Dominic and St. Juan Diego? Need we reflect upon the powerful icon of her in Czestachowa and the fate of a certain vandal?

That the local bishop does not accept the visions is plenty for me. I do not accept that the bishop could possibly deny Mary's presence if she desired to be known there.

That the Vatican has on multiple occasions pronounced that there was nothing supernatural happening there is plenty more for me.

And no, popularity does not make it true.

Is Medjugorje of Satan? Not likely. I will state that it is of man, and only man.

[st-annes]

A few years ago, author Sandra Miesel spoke at a conference hosted by an Orthodox journal. Her topic was the doubtful nature of many apparitions. She said words to the effect that sometimes when people pray, they "get that little nudge" from God and then take it in their own direction because of their own hopes (and misunderstandings). I'm not sure if it's demons coming to Medjugorje-- I think it may be a case of people praying, and then filling in the blanks with what they want to have happen.


(An aside-- Miesel has [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Miesel"]written[/url] a challenge to the "His Dark Materials" series. She also wrote a very good refutation of the Da Vinci Code, "The Da Vinci Hoax," co-authored with Carl Olson. End postscript.)

[Sister Rose Therese]

Firstly, I don't think I'd be where I am today if it hadn't been for Medjugorje.
Secondly, I don't think the Church will ever approve anything like this officially, only on the basis of Miracles.
And because it only would take one lie to make the entire apparition false, they will likely never approve the apparitions until they end. Up until now, I have never heard it said that anything in the messages given has been against Church teaching.
Also, remember that many apparitions and miraculous events had been refuted by the Church and by Saintly people before being officially approved like: The Diary of St. Faustina, St. Pio, Lasalette. Saint Bernard of Clairvaux and others disputed the Immaculate Conception.
But from what I have seen so far most of the objections to Medjugorje are a lot of "so-and-so said".

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Sister Rose Therese' post='1432297' date='Dec 10 2007, 01:03 AM']Firstly, I don't think I'd be where I am today if it hadn't been for Medjugorje.
Secondly, I don't think the Church will ever approve anything like this officially, only on the basis of Miracles.
And because it only would take one lie to make the entire apparition false, they will likely never approve the apparitions until they end. Up until now, I have never heard it said that anything in the messages given has been against Church teaching.
Also, remember that many apparitions and miraculous events had been refuted by the Church and by Saintly people before being officially approved like: The Diary of St. Faustina, St. Pio, Lasalette. Saint Bernard of Clairvaux and others disputed the Immaculate Conception.
But from what I have seen so far most of the objections to Medjugorje are a lot of "so-and-so said".[/quote]

Amen. And God Bless you!

[Lounge Daddy]

double

Edited December 10, 2007 by Lounge Daddy

[Mercy me]

I am not saying that the apparitions are true or not. All I am saying is that it is private revelation that has not been deemed true to the teachings of the church. I am not qualified to judge this myself.

I have seen amazing things come from there. A friend of mine received her vocation and another had a major convertion. Others have been no less transformed. However, this is still private revelation and we must be careful of it.

[Sister Rose Therese]

I would be every bit as cautious of condemning something as demonic and claiming it divine.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Sister Rose Therese' post='1432297' date='Dec 9 2007, 11:03 PM']But from what I have seen so far most of the objections to Medjugorje are a lot of "so-and-so said".[/quote]
and the only basis for belief that i have seen from many people has been because "so-and-so had something happen". the devil can bring about supernatural phenomenon too.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1432301' date='Dec 9 2007, 11:12 PM']However, this is still private revelation and we must be careful of it.[/quote]
YES! amen!