KnightofChrist Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 [quote name='JustJ' post='1599749' date='Jul 14 2008, 02:16 AM']Excuse me? Wow, I thought that the whole heaven thing was the most important part. Ya know, usually less than 100 years here, an eternity there? o_O[/quote] Which is why I said prevention of hell is a great part of evangelizing, "[u]but not the only or greatest part.[/u]" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJ Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1599756' date='Jul 14 2008, 03:27 AM']...not the...greatest part.[/quote] And I still don't understand why it is not the greatest part... Well, I guess it depends on your definition of greatest, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Heaven is the greatest part. You understand this clearly from post #90. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJ Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1599759' date='Jul 14 2008, 03:35 AM']Heaven is the greatest part. You understand this clearly from post #90.[/quote] >.< I talk of salvation as saving someone from hell and also of getting them to heaven. -_- Seriously the process that does one does the other, and the process is really what I was referring to, not that specific side, but the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Perhaps it's the lateness of the hour, but I do not clearly understand your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 [quote name='JustJ' post='1599744' date='Jul 14 2008, 03:59 AM']Doing more evangelizing to reach out to people who might be at risk of hell?[/quote] Maybe you're reading the question differently than I did. I don't think the original poster was questioning whether or not we should outwardly evangelize, but whether we should use methods that Protestants use. Of course, Protestants evangelize in a wide variety of ways, so it's hard to tell exactly what the original poster had in mind. [quote name='JustJ' post='1599761' date='Jul 14 2008, 04:48 AM']>.< I talk of salvation as saving someone from hell and also of getting them to heaven. -_- Seriously the process that does one does the other, and the process is really what I was referring to, not that specific side, but the whole thing.[/quote] I think what Knight of Christ is talking about is the positive motivation of desiring to reach Heaven versus the negative motivation of simply avoiding Hell. The former is similar to perfect contrition, in which you are sorry for your sins because they offend God. Imperfect contrition is being sorry only because you don't want to be in Hell. Thus, the desire to avoid Hell is more self-focused where the desire to be in Heaven is more God-focused. FWIW, I imagine most of us are somewhere in between those extremes. Sometimes we avoid sin simply to avoid the need to confess it later or some other selfish reason, and while that's good because we used that selfish motivation to avoid sinning, the best motivation comes from a pure love for God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1599637' date='Jul 13 2008, 10:57 PM']That's a perfect example of bad evangelism because it's completely impersonal. Good evangelism because with personal relationships. That is how God evangelizes us to begin with: not through dead idols, but the living Man.[/quote] From what was seen in the story, this huge statue of the Divine Mercy lifted people's minds up to God. This is why the Catholic church has plenty of "dead idols"? as you call them? Statues and pictures can "speak" volumes to people. Again, it was an image Jesus asked St. Faustina to commission to "evangelize the Church and the World" about His Divine Mercy. I'm all for speaking to people one-on-one, but it doesn't always have to be done that way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1603379' date='Jul 19 2008, 02:29 PM']From what was seen in the story, this huge statue of the Divine Mercy lifted people's minds up to God. This is why the Catholic church has plenty of "dead idols"? as you call them? Statues and pictures can "speak" volumes to people. Again, it was an image Jesus asked St. Faustina to commission to "evangelize the Church and the World" about His Divine Mercy.[/quote] The only people driving down that highway who know what the Divine Mercy is are already Catholic. I watched the video and couldn't have told you now that it was the Divine Mercy. I think statues like that are gaudy and distasteful, although I do support his right to build it on his private property. However, I honestly don't think very many peoples' minds are lifted up to God by seeing that statue. From the looks of it, I wonder if most even notice it, considering how fast the traffic is moving down that highway. Beauty in architecture, art, and liturgy is absolutely expected of us in our worship to God (just heard a talk about that very subject on Saturday), but without love, all these forms of physical beauty are like "a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal." Thus, the real issue for me is that I've never seen these public displays of faith associated with conversions. Church buildings are different because living, breathing, loving Christians (hopefully) gather there; and it's living, breathing, loving Christians who bring repentant sinners into the Church. Seems to me, statues like this are erected out of the hope that somehow people will see it and think about God. I've heard more people cursing Christians for building this kind of stuff. I'm only one person, so maybe there is good fruit that I haven't seen. I'd be curious to hear such a story. Just to clarify, the "dead idols" I'm referring to are those worshiped by the Canaanites and other pagans of Israel's time, along with the idols worshiped by Buddhists, Hindus, secularists, and other pagans today. We all know Catholics worship the living God. That's why I think we can do a lot better than building a statue, which to me symbolizes nothing more than the hardened hearts of most Christians in America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I totally disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 No, Catholics should do more "dialogues" and interfaith prayer services... Sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 (edited) [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1604555' date='Jul 21 2008, 02:58 PM']I totally disagree.[/quote] You disagree that Catholics worship the living God? You say peoples minds are lifted up to God by this Divine Mercy statue. Do you have any reason to believe that's actually happening? Or is that just what you would like to believe because you're already Catholic? I'm putting myself in the shoes of someone who isn't Catholic, or even Christian. They don't look at Jesus statues and "lift their minds to heaven." If it were that easy, Rio de Janiero would be one of the holiest cities on earth. [quote name='mortify' post='1604566' date='Jul 21 2008, 03:27 PM']No, Catholics should do more "dialogues" and interfaith prayer services... Sigh[/quote] Sure beats closing the doors of synagogues and killing those who refuse to become Catholic. Edited August 4, 2008 by LouisvilleFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOIfriend Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 At my old job, I called up a lot of answering machines. Every single time I heard some saying, have a blessed day, I thought it was tacky. Especially, one that sticks in my mind, I hope you have chosen Jesus like I have chosen Jesus. I thought, you know, if I was Atheist, I would hang up instantly. Today's evangelism is really all about self-righteousness. You go out to be seen of men handing out tracks saying come to my church because we're the only ones who believe the truth. Even if you go to church, I want you at mine, because you probably never heard the truth in your life, you have to come to my church, and my church alone. I get sick at the religious people today, because many are have their heads so far up they're butts that they have gotten use to the smell. That is why many sound like they're croutons doesn't stink. I would rather live as a living sacrifice for people, so people would be able to tell I am a Christian without handing them a track. I will be all things to all men, so [b]some[/b] may be saved. All the Apostles had to do was go visiting to each other houses, and the fear of the Lord fell on all the people of the land, such that God saved all that [b]should[/b] be saved believed. Don't be hypocrites hanging out anything, evangelizing anybody, just be Christ followers, and the people will start to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Honestly I think many Christians today are embarrassed at the name of Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God. Even more so when it's spoken in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOIfriend Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1617350' date='Aug 4 2008, 08:05 PM']Honestly I think many Christians today are embarrassed at the name of Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God. Even more so when it's spoken in public.[/quote] And we all know what happens to those people, don't we brother. If you deny the son, the son denies you to the father. I've never had much fear of just telling people that I believe in the Bible and in Jesus, and then be told they are all fairy tales. It's hilarious. The problem is there are people driven by something other than God when it comes down to some of the things 'evangelizers' do. Do you think you can win a soul to Christ? I don't believe I could ever win any soul to Christ, but God can win them to Christ through me. I'm just a humble conduit of God's blessings, and curses, to the world. He does the work, because I can't do anything except through Jesus! You have to have Jesus in you before you can declare him, or you become a clashing symbol, annoying everybody, even real christians! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 What is everyone's views on door-to-door Catholic evangelization? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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