Jesuits Put Up One World Religion Monument

[son_of_angels]

Doctrine is not a comfort zone, it's a salvation zone. It is the only place where you can remain in safety "against th'encircling gloom" (Ven. Newman) and everlasting damnation.

As for the monument, fact is, every one of those symbols, excepting perhaps the star of David, is blasphemous and offensive to God. As a Christian, I would fear God's wrath if I were to wear a crescent symbolizing Islam, or if I erected one in my yard. There is no exception to those Christians engaging in "interfaith" work.
Even if it does symbolize the final authority of Christ, it is so ambiguous that it's ambiguity could in fact be considered heretical, in so much as it confuses people about Church dogma.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1029625' date='Jul 23 2006, 05:31 PM']
Thus confirming my observations that schismatic "rad trads" are merely the latest breed of anti-Catholic protestants.
I have long noted that despite what they might think, they are far from "polar opposites," both sharing a common disdain for Rome and Papal authority, and relying on prideful willful ignorance and misinformation, rather than facing the Church with humility and an open mind.

You might try reading the actual teachings of the Church, rather than pulling all your "information" from anti-Catholic sources.
[/quote]

Okay. I'll continue to do that as I have throughout the whole process. You guys really and truly understand nothing about the actual "rad trads" at all. You can confirm your observations all you wish. It doesn't change anything. Maybe the people here could open their eyes and be a little more inviting to discussing things with the "fanatics" such as I apparently am. Until then you will gain no further insight at all.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1034496' date='Jul 30 2006, 08:39 PM']
Okay. I'll continue to do that as I have throughout the whole process. You guys really and truly understand nothing about the actual "rad trads" at all. You can confirm your observations all you wish. It doesn't change anything. Maybe the people here could open their eyes and be a little more inviting to discussing things with the "fanatics" such as I apparently am. Until then you will gain no further insight at all.
[/quote]

The issue with "rad-trads" is not doctrine- its pride, obedience and trust. You can argue doctrine til your blue in the face, but until the attitude changes you won't get far at all. Rad-trads assume because they they don't understand something, the Church is somehow wrong, never thinking maybe their flawed and limited comprehension is in error. The idea of context and worldview and subtlety of thought is missing. Rad-trads act like the Church is to be taken on trial, it has to proof itself to someones satisfaction, or jump thru hoops before they will accept its teaching is consistant to its understanding.

For me, I don't have to reconcile every word of the last 2000 years and ignor development of our understanding of the faith, before I will accept the authority of the Church. I don't assume the Church got it wrong and somehow rad-trads are special and got it right.
I trust the Church founded by Jesus Christ and led by the Holy Spirit to get it right. They don't.

[mortify]

I wouldn't fret over what looks to be large paper cut-outs. Hardly monumental stuff.

But what's up with the Jesuit order?

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1034704' date='Jul 31 2006, 06:44 AM']
The issue with "rad-trads" is not doctrine- its pride, obedience and trust. You can argue doctrine til your blue in the face, but until the attitude changes you won't get far at all. Rad-trads assume because they they don't understand something, the Church is somehow wrong, never thinking maybe their flawed and limited comprehension is in error. The idea of context and worldview and subtlety of thought is missing. Rad-trads act like the Church is to be taken on trial, it has to proof itself to someones satisfaction, or jump thru hoops before they will accept its teaching is consistant to its understanding.

For me, I don't have to reconcile every word of the last 2000 years and ignor development of our understanding of the faith, before I will accept the authority of the Church. I don't assume the Church got it wrong and somehow rad-trads are special and got it right.
I trust the Church founded by Jesus Christ and led by the Holy Spirit to get it right. They don't.
[/quote]

Again though, this based on absolutely nothing... Eventually both sides will come to realize just how badly they understand the other side. This goes for the Trad side as well. I have met way too many people on that side as well who assume all the Novus Ordo catholics are out to get them, and other such nonsense. If we are ever going to fix this problem, one way or the other, both sides will have to start being more open to actually making their concerns known to the other side. I know that there is something about the Novus Ordo catholics that is not bad, that is good. I know there are good people there that have no hidden agenda. But I know this only because I once was one. Had I been born into where I am now I would not know this, and would never believe it based on how people on this side feel. But it's the same when I was Novus Ordo. This place especially needs to shape up and think about how they are approaching this situation...

Edited August 1, 2006 by goldenchild17

[ruso]

I'm in Church thanks fo liberal Jesuit priest .
And my family. Wife and two childrens.

[Budge]

If I believed like the Jesuits, I would have remained Unitarian Universalist, that is basically what they are at the core.

Im glad there are a few on here who are now discerning that something is wrong with this monument.

[quote]
I think you have come to a wrong conclusion, but the evidence you post is intriguing.[/quote]

Thanks...[I think;]
[quote]
However, I will say that as a word of advice, whatever you are trying to promote you aren't doing it in the best way you could be. Try a different approach, calmer. [/quote]

Theres too many CALM folks in the face of the breaking of the First Commandment. I include a bunch of wishy-wash Prots on that list.
[quote]
You might try reading the actual teachings of the Church, rather than pulling all your "information" from anti-Catholic sources.

[/quote]

This was posted right from the horse's mouth was it not?

Direct from the Jesuit website.

You all are too hard on the rad Trads, they really are correct about how Catholicism has changed. Their problem is they still believe the Catholic Church is the One True Church instead of obeying Gods commandment to Come out of Her.

You know too much obedience is not a good thing, if you follow your church leaders right into the arms of the interfaith antichrist gospel.



[quote]

This is also what Holy Mother Church teaches and believes.

And I believe it as well.
[/quote]

Actually Romes version of that is far different then the born again Christians view of Christs teaching.
[quote]
“It [b]will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions[/b] and by following the dictates of their own conscience that [b]members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour[/b].(*4)[/quote]


(*4) Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue-Congregation for The Evangelization of Peoples, Instruction Dialogue and Proclamation, 19 May 1991 n29; L’Ossertavore Romano English Edition, 1 July 1991, p.III).

Uh no, that is not how it works..

[Justified Saint]

[quote name='Budge' post='1038096' date='Aug 5 2006, 07:10 AM']

You know too much obedience is not a good thing, if you follow your church leaders right into the arms of the interfaith antichrist gospel.

[/quote]

Obedience is at the heart of the Gospel, and only a belief in the visible Church of Christ on earth can actualize that obedience -- but that doesn't mean blind adherence to its human agents and leaders. Outside of that context obedience seems meaningless.

Edited August 8, 2006 by Justified Saint

[Eutychus]

[quote]Obedience is at the heart of the Gospel, and only a belief in the visible Church of Christ on earth can actualize that obedience -- but that doesn't mean blind adherence to its human agents and leaders. Outside of that context obedience seems meaningless. [/quote]

Do you ever write in normal english?

I read you, and you read like a Jesuit qualifying every word as it slithers out of his mouth....

Are you in training to be a spokesperson for Opus Dei or some other group that requires measured preprogrammed language be spoken?

Just wondering, honestly...

[Justified Saint]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1039943' date='Aug 8 2006, 05:39 PM']
Just wondering, honestly...
[/quote]

Honesty and wonder usually require humility which I cannot say you have any. Often your posts are saturated with these kind of angry and insulting remarks but at least they are accompanied with an argument or point. This post is just insulting.

[Eutychus]

[quote name='Justified Saint' post='1039987' date='Aug 8 2006, 07:35 PM']
Honesty and wonder usually require humility which I cannot say you have any. Often your posts are saturated with these kind of angry and insulting remarks but at least they are accompanied with an argument or point. This post is just insulting.
[/quote]

YOU are telling me about "humility?"

And you did not answer the question. Why not?

[Justified Saint]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1040080' date='Aug 9 2006, 05:10 AM']
YOU are telling me about "humility?"

And you did not answer the question. Why not?
[/quote]

I know we have had problems with reading comphrension before...

[Eutychus]

[quote]
I know we have had problems with reading comphrension before...[/quote]

I know, did you forget my earlier request that you use English?

[Justified Saint]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1040262' date='Aug 9 2006, 10:54 AM']
I know, did you forget my earlier request that you use English?
[/quote]

Actually, if you want to get technical you asked if I did every use (normal) English, not that I be asked to use it.

I can understand you fine and (if this is what you mean) I can "dumb down" my original post on the obedience of the gospel if you want -- just let me know.

[Budge]

[quote]only a belief in the visible Church of Christ on earth can actualize that obedience -- [size=5][b]but that doesn't mean blind adherence to its human agents and leaders[/b][/size][/quote]

Youre wrong about that.

I know for a fact Catholicism teaches that Catholics must follow a Pope NO MATTER how wicked.

That IS BLIND ADHERENCE.

The CCC says this...[and it doesnt matter if the man is wicked, an apostate and more]

[quote]
937 The Pope enjoys, by divine institution, "supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls" (CD 2).[/quote]


[quote]
882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful." "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered
[/quote]
."

It gets even better then this...
[quote]
Quote:
87 Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles: "He who hears you, hears me", t[b]he faithful receive with docility[/b] the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.
[/quote]


If a Catholic is not following a Pope in matters of faith and morals...[that would include the Popes wicked interfaith plans] they are sinning by the RCCs own teachings...

[quote] Quote:
892 Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a "definitive manner," they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. [b]To this ordinary teaching the faithful "are to adhere to it with religious assent" which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it.[/b]
[/quote]

Throughout Romes history BLIND ADHERENCE to the POPE AND HIS MEN has been mandated and taught.
[quote]
[b]"It is error to believe that, if the Pope were a reprobate and an evil man and consequently a member of the devil, he has no power over the faithful."
[/b]
Council of Constance, Condemnation of Errors, against Wycliffe, Session VIII, and Hus: Session XV[/quote]



[quote]:[b]"...whether it be possible for him (the Pope) to err or not, is to be obeyed by all the faithful."[/b]

St. Robert Bellarmine, De Romano Pontifice, pt. 5, (quoted in Apostolic Digest
[/quote]

[quote]
[b]"Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom.[/b] He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" [b]But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him."[/b]

St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222
[/quote]

[quote]"[b]It is error to believe that, if the Pope were wicked and reprobate, then he is of the devil and is not head of the Church Militant..."
[/b]
Pope Martin V, Inter Cunctas et in Eminentis[/quote]

These are DEFINITELY TEACHINGS OF SATAN.

That contradict Jesus warning of the fruits and about the blind that would lead the blind into the ditch.