Jesuits Put Up One World Religion Monument

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1023627' date='Jul 13 2006, 11:40 AM']
If I was having "interreligious dialogue' with you, I would be saying...Oh thats nice, instead of describing error or comparing scripture to what Rome teaches...

I am not here to dialogue..the definition of dialogue is for two parties to come to an agreement.

I will not come to an agreement with Catholicism.
[/quote]

We can have a very long dialogue without any agreement and it certainly is inter-religious.
You keep throwing up various tidbits of info, but really haven't actually tried talking to us.

You certainly aren't going to convert us .

[Budge]

well I just plant seeds and warn...[watchmen]

How you respond to them is not under my control.

Thats for God to deal with.

[Justified Saint]

Budge,

That is a fancy description of a troll. But if that helps you deal with your shame, whatever -- that is not for us to decide and control (though it should be! It is customary in cyberspace, I am told, to ban trolls .

[Like a Child]

I have a feeling I'm going to get some sort of electronic tomatos thrown at me (or worse)
. . .but here goes anyway.

I LOVE the Catholic Church. I wouldn't want to be a part of any other faith or profess any other creed than ours. I find MY salvation in the Catholic Church. I also that think that both scripture and Church teaching are crucial to my understanding of existence, of morality, of redemption, and of God. However, I think there is always room for error on our (the creature's) part. I fear that as soon as we think we know God and can understand His ways fully, we have abandoned reality.

God is SO much bigger than us. His "ways are above our ways" --SO far above. Who knows what plans he has for the salvation of his creatures? We believe what we believe because it is what we know; it is OUR tradition. We can sit here all day making declarations such as "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus" and comfort ourselves with the idea that we have chosen the ONE, the ONLY, TRUE faith. Yet, as I'm sure you all know, at this very moment on some other forum or in some other chat room, a devout Muslim is typing away with the same fervent belief in his heart. HIS faith is the ONE, the ONLY, TRUE faith. To him, WE (as Catholics) are the heretics, the dissenters, the rebels. Many Hindus, Buddhists, Protestants, pagans, etc., etc., etc., believe the same thing.

Sorry to write so much. . . All I'm saying is, yes, Christ is my salvation. I believe he saved me by bringing me to the Catholic Church. I can't imagine my life without Him. His "Way" has become my way. Yet, who among us knows the mind of God? Who knows all of the many splendid means our Lord employs to achieve the salvation of souls?

Please don't kill me ; I know what I've written probably isn't orthodox enough for Phatmass. I respect all of your opinions and look forward to what you have to say.

In Christ,
Like a Child

By the way, I didn't mean that as a hijack. . .it just took me a lot of words to say, "I'm okay with the Jesuit monument." In other words, "It rocks!"

[Budge]

why worry that the rest wont like your post?

After all it is Phatmass described on Google as being for "the unity of all religions"

Youre in the majority opinion here.

I used to believe this when I was a Unitarian Universalist--

[quote]Who knows all of the many splendid means our Lord employs to achieve the salvation of souls? [/quote]

Not anymore as a Christian.

[Like a Child]

Hey Budge,

No, I've been hanging around here long enough to know that most phatmassers won't agree with what I wrote. And I respect that. Their faithfulness to the Church is admirable. . .I'm even willing to admit that perhaps there is "no salvation outside the Church." My whole point, though, is that WE CAN'T KNOW FOR SURE! I know, I know. The response to that statement is to cite Church authority and scripture. And, as I said, I rest my faith and life on the Bible and on the Church. But although both, I believe, are divinely inspired, they still come to us through a HUMAN lens. We all "fall short of the glory of God."

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1023837' date='Jul 13 2006, 05:58 PM']
why worry that the rest wont like your post?

After all it is Phatmass described on Google as being for "the unity of all religions"

Youre in the majority opinion here.

I used to believe this when I was a Unitarian Universalist--
Not anymore as a Christian.
[/quote]
Well we do want everyone to convert and be united as Catholics. :

[geetarplayer]

I see Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Taoism, Judaism, Islam, Unitarian, Baha'i... and some symbols I don't recognize or can't see very well.

[KnightofChrist]

This "monument of peace" does not correspond with the view nor will of Christ. Christ did welcome all people, but not their gods. There is but one path to Christ and it is the Straight and Narrow Path. There is no salivation outside the Holy Catholic Church. One can not come to Christ if they hold on to their old ways, as Paul taught. I have no doubt that this abomination was made with only good intentions however dear brothers and sisters some of us have forgotten the commandment "I am the Lord thy God... Thou shalt not have strange gods before me." This monument breaks that commandment, mixing other gods with the One True God is sinful. This "monument of peace" is a abomination against Christ.

May the only true God of Abraham have mercy on us all.

[KnightofChrist]

That being said Budge, this abomination is not the fault of the Holy Catholic Church, it is the fault of a few rebellus geniuses who are not speaking for the Catholic Church with this false "monument of peace." Thus far I have not seen you speak for Christ, only hate for satan using and twisting the words of Christ.

You love to point out the faults and sins of the people of the Catholic Church, so please tell me the name of your Church so I too may point out for everyone the faults and sins of its people, and apply it to you and your church as a whole, or is your church and its people perfect?

Edited July 14, 2006 by KnightofChrist

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1024123' date='Jul 14 2006, 03:45 AM']
This "monument of peace" does not correspond with the view nor will of Christ. Christ did welcome all people, but not their gods. There is but one path to Christ and it is the Straight and Narrow Path. There is no salivation outside the Holy Catholic Church. One can not come to Christ if they hold on to their old ways, as Paul taught. I have no doubt that this abomination was made with only good intentions however dear brothers and sisters some of us have forgotten the commandment "I am the Lord thy God... Thou shalt not have strange gods before me." This monument breaks that commandment, mixing other gods with the One True God is sinful. This "monument of peace" is a abomination against Christ.

May the only true God of Abraham have mercy on us all.
[/quote]

On the other hand, if the intention is to point out that all these groups [who do share the same little blue planet with us] can work together for the end of war, the elimination of poverty, and some respect for other people, then I can understand the monument. They [i]did[/i] put the cross on the top.

[Justified Saint]

Sorry KnightofChrist, but that was just too good of a typo:

"no salivation outside of the Holy Catholic Church" (Pavlov's dogs anyone?

Now talk about an incentive for being Catholic!

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Justified Saint' post='1024248' date='Jul 14 2006, 08:11 AM']
Sorry KnightofChrist, but that was just too good of a typo:

"no salivation outside of the Holy Catholic Church" (Pavlov's dogs anyone?

Now talk about an incentive for being Catholic!
[/quote]


woopsy

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1024143' date='Jul 14 2006, 05:51 AM']
On the other hand, if the intention is to point out that all these groups [who do share the same little blue planet with us] can work together for the end of war, the elimination of poverty, and some respect for other people, then I can understand the monument. They [i]did[/i] put the cross on the top.
[/quote]

I have no problem with the good intentions of people working together for peace. I do have a problem with people mixing my God the only true God with other false gods... the cross be on top or not, its still mixing The One True God with false gods. Christ is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, top and bottom and all way round. And its the false gods that are holding up the Cross in this abomination.

[Didacus]

You know, budge and debate aside I don't take offense to the work.

1. Claiming superiority of the Church is false, the church is no better nor worse, it is FAITHFUL and TRUE to GOD, but not superior.

If a man is a sinner, is he less important than a Saint? It is in this manner that I state this; we cannot invite an open dialogue by claiming to be better (which underscores more important in the eyes of God).


True, this is a play on terms, but I hope it reminds Catholics that humility is primordial in discussing with other religions.


2. How can we possibly enter in dialogue iwth other religions unless we meet with them in a form ot other? Would you refuse a Muslim from entering a church?

For a genuine discussion to be held, common grounds must be found; i see this work as an attempt to find common ground, not as an attempt to dilute the faith, or any faith.

Of course it can be sdeen both ways, which are you, a pessimist or an optimist? Live by what you love, not by what you detest.

[Like a Child]

Okay, so here's a thought. (Those older and wiser please chime in.)

Like Knight of Christ, I believe there is only one God. I have not forgotten the first commandment. But assuming again that God is greater and His love more encompassing than we could ever imagine, couldn't He be the God of all religions? Let's picture it this way: God, as we know, is the source of all light and all love in the universe. Perhaps His "light" is refracted down to us through all of the religions. Our various cultures on the planet find different ways of interpreting this "light" and understanding the Divine. Each religion gets their own glimpse of God and finds their own unique way of understanding Him --and each understanding has a semblance of truth to it (some more than others, maybe). Or we could compare the world's religions to paths up a mountain. There is only one God at the top, but different religions find different ways up to that one God.

I DO think there is such a thing as "strange gods." But I don't think the Divine entity celebrated in most world religions would qualify as such. As long as the religion incorporates compassion, love, humility, strong morals, reverence for life, and other positive ingredients that I am no doubt forgetting, I think chances are those religions are talking about the same God we are talking about. Perhaps practitioners of these holy religions are encountering Christ in their own worship and prayer life. Maybe they just don't know that it is He they are encountering. This seems plausible to me.

The last thing I want to say is that even those individuals who claim to believe in no god, are oftentimes better people than practicing Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. My sister, for instance, has devoted her entire life to helping the poorest of the poor in Africa. In fact, she is willing to lay down her life for them, and has almost had to do so on a few occassions. Although she never goes to church, never prays (as far as I know), and doesn't enjoy the benefits of a relationship with Christ, I think she might very well be a better "Christian" than I am. She is LIVING the Gospel. It seems Christ's law is written in her heart without her even knowing it. I hope that someday she will come to embrace Christ, but would I say that she's guaranteed never to find salvation outside the Church. NO!!!