Bishop says Medjugorje apparitions are divisive

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote]Medjugorje apparition claims are divisive, bishop warns

Jul. 04 (CWNews.com) - The Catholic bishop whose diocese includes the town of Medjugorje has warned that "something similar to a schism" has arisen at the parish church where apparitions of the Virgin Mary are alleged to take place.

In a homily delivered in Medjugorje on the feast of Corpus Christi, Bishop Ratko Peric of Mostar-Duvno, in Bosnia-Herzegovina, said that both he and his predecessor have expressed severe misgivings about the reported apparitions. He added that both Pope John Paul II (bio - news) and Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) backed the judgments of the local bishops.

In his homily Bishop Peric explained that-- "while recognizing the Holy Father's right to give a final decision" on the validity of the reported apparitions-- he doubted their validity. He recalled that when he discussed the reports from Medjugorje with Vatican officials, including then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, they shared his incredulity.

"They particularly do not seem to be authentic," the bishop observed, "when it is known before that these so-called 'apparitions' will occur." Bishop Peric cited the schedule that the Medjugorje seers have provided, listing the times and places at which they claim the next visits by the Mother of God will occur. Thousands of messages from Mary are now claimed, and the bishop observed that "the flood of so-called apparitions, messages, secrets, and signs do not strengthen the faith, but rather further convince us that in all of this there is nothing neither authentic nor established as truthful."

The first reported appearances of the Virgin at Medjugorje occurred just over 25 years ago. During the 1980s, thousands of Catholic flocked to the little town, with many reporting profound spiritual experiences. These pilgrimages were eventually slowed by the violent bloodshed that tore through the region in the 1990s and by the increasingly public skepticism of the hierarchy.

Bishop Peric reminded his people of the restrictions that he has imposed on activities in Medjugorje. The parish church is not formally a "shrine," he said, and should not be characterized as such. Pilgrimages to the church are discouraged. Priests there are "not authorized to express their private views contrary to the official position of the Church on the so-called 'apparitions' and 'messages,' during celebrations of the sacraments, nor during other common acts of piety, nor in the Catholic media."

The bishops urged the "seers" of Medjugorje to "demonstrate ecclesiastical obedience and to cease with these public manifestations and messages in this parish."

Some of the Franciscan priests assigned to the Medjugorje parish, he said, have been expelled from their order because of their refusal to accept Church authority. "They have not only been illegally active in these parishes, but they have also administered the sacraments profanely, while others invalidly," he said. As Bishop of Mostar-Duvno, he said, he felt obliged to warn the faithful "who invalidly confess their sins to these priests and participate in sacrilegious liturgies."
[/quote]

Here ya go... This should definitely be taken seriously since it's coming directly from the Bishop overseeing Medjugorje.

[brendan1104]

Both His Excellency's predecessor, the bishop himself, the Church's dogmatic magisterial teaching, and common sense tell you that Medjugorje is not real. When will people finally abandon their stubborness and blind faith and realize these are false apparitions? "Mary's" denial of Catholic dogma is certainly enough evidence of their falsehood.

[quote]"The Madonna always stresses that there is but one God and that people have enforced unnatural separation. One cannot truly believe, be a true Christian, if he does not respect other religions as well."[/quote] – "Seer" Ivanka Ivankovic, [i]The Apparitions of Our Lady of Medjugorje[/i], Franciscan Herald Press, 1984.

[quote]"The Madonna said that religions are separated in the earth, but the people of all religions are accepted by her Son."[/quote] – "Seer" Ivanka Ivankovic, [i]The Apparitions of Our Lady of Medjugorje[/i], Franciscan Herald Press, 1984.

Question: "Is the Blessed Mother calling all people to be Catholic?"
Answer: [quote]"No. The Blessed Mother says all religions are dear to her and her Son."[/quote] –"Seer" Vicka Ivankovic, [i] The Apparitions of the Blessed Mother at Medjugorje[/i], St. Martin's Press, 1992.

Vicka therefore claims that apostates, heretics, and schismatics can enter heaven persisting in their sinful, obstinate error. This quote alone proves that Medjugorje is totally false, and a deceit of the devil.

[u]What does the Catholic Church say?[/u]

[quote]"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.[/quote]
(Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

[quote]"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." [/quote]
(Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

Edited July 4, 2006 by brendan1104

[the_rev]

Say what you say about Medjugorje, and I'll say what I say.

It is through the love of the Blessed Mother that I was called to spend time as a foreign exchange student in a tiny village that is deeply religious even though I was an atheist. I came to believe in the faith through Medjugorje, and have come to a vocational calling from Medjugorje.

It has done good for me.

Also, why was this posted in Open Mic, it is just going to turn into a debate. Let's use some common sense.

[prose]

This is very interesting. My mother-in-law is very fond of Medjugorje in her prayer life. I gently have mentioned to her that it has not been approved, but I think she thinks that this is by liberal leaders trying to hide the truth.

I am so glad to see information from you Brendan.

[the_rev]

Information from Brendan, a good source there.... look at his group....

His quotes are not the full quotations. Maybe he would care to share the entire quotes instead of just what he wants to quote to support his case.

Edited July 4, 2006 by the_rev

[prose]

I am not saying I have an opinion either way on this. I just am reluctant to follow something that has so many misgivings within the Church.

[quote]
The official Church teaching concerning private revelation is explained by Pope Benedict XIV (18th century.):

"[The Church] simply permits them [private revelations] to be published for the instruction and the edification of the faithful. The assent to be given to them is not therefore an act of Catholic Faith but of human faith, based upon the fact that these revelations are probable and worthy of credence.

"St. John of the Cross asserts that the desire for revelations deprives faith of its purity, develops a dangerous curiosity that becomes a source of illusions, fills the mind with vain fancies, and often proves the want of humility, and of submission to Our Lord, Who, through His public revelation, has given all that is needed for salvation.

"We must suspect those apparitions that lack dignity or proper reserve, and above all, those that are ridiculous. This last charcteristic is a mark of human or diabolical machination." [/quote]

[the_rev]

I didn't say that you did, I was just saying Brendan only uses the quotations that support his claim, but don't give the full quote.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

Brendan has certainly demonstrated that Medjugorje is not something anyone should be involved in.

[prose]

It sure would be nice if the Vatican could make a declaration about this once and for all.

I think it is a HUGE distraction sometimes because people are debating over something that could be clarified rather quickly.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Well, 2 Bishops of the area have spoken about the apparitions, and it's highly unlikely that if the Vatican clarified anything they would go against the Bishops.

What Brendan posted is the same stuff I've read... out of context or not, it seems rather ambiguous for something that Our Blessed Mother would be supporting... it's definitely concerning.

Besides, since this is recent, and coming from the Bishop, it needs to be regarded as such.

[brendan1104]

[quote name='the_rev' post='1017065' date='Jul 4 2006, 10:10 AM']
I didn't say that you did, I was just saying Brendan only uses the quotations that support his claim, but don't give the full quote.
[/quote]

Wrong, Eddie. I did give the full quotes.

[quote name='prose' post='1017068' date='Jul 4 2006, 10:14 AM']
It sure would be nice if the Vatican could make a declaration about this once and for all.

I think it is a HUGE distraction sometimes because people are debating over something that could be clarified rather quickly.
[/quote]

You see, Prose, the Vatican can't make a declaration on Medjugorje because the "apparitions" haven't concluded yet. That is the absurdity that is part of Medjugorje- the appparitions are of an unparalleled length- daily for 20+ years.

The following is a part of a bishop's conversation with the current Pope, last year:

Pope Benedict: [quote]"We at the Congregation [for the Doctrine of the Faith] always asked ourselves, how can any believer accept as authentic apparitions that occur every day and for so many years? Are they still occurring every day?"[/quote]

Bishop Peric: [quote]"Every day, Holy Father, to one of the [visionaries] in Boston, to another near Milan and still another in Krehin Gradac (Herzegovina), and everything is done under the protocol of 'apparitions of Medjugorje'. Up till now there have been about 35,000 'apparitions' and there is no end in sight!" [/quote]

So there's your answer Prose- until there are no more claims of "apparitions" the Vatican can't decide. This just shows the sad, powerful influence of the devil in our world.

Edited July 4, 2006 by brendan1104

[prose]

How is this a debate? I am glad it was posted here.

Sometimes I think things are thrown so quickly to the debate table that they can't just be discussed calmly.

Anyways. I had no idea that the Vatican couldn't make a declaration until the visions had stopped. To be honest, I have never really known a lot about Medjugorje with the exception of what my mother in law has told me. Is there more than one visionary there? If so, technically, when she pases away, it should end, right? Or have others seen the same visions?

[brendan1104]

[quote name='prose' post='1017090' date='Jul 4 2006, 10:54 AM']
Is there more than one visionary there? If so, technically, when she pases away, it should end, right? Or have others seen the same visions?
[/quote]

There's 5 or 6 visionaries, all in different parts of the world who travel extensively. One of them visits a cultish community in Birmingham every summer and plans an apparition. There's another proof of their falsehood- they know exactly when and where the Blessed Mother will appear, though she doesn't tell them so.

[prose]

Interesting.

So why can't the Vatican just put a stop to it? Even if they aren't done, if they are not true, why allow the faithful to continue to be mislead? Is it some sort of canon law?

I just read this:

[quote]There will a permanent, indestructable, supernatural sign left at the place of Our Lady's first apparition in Medjugorje on the hill Podbrdo at the conclusion of the apparitions.[/quote]

That would certainly clear things up eh? No sign, no truth. Is that perhaps what the Vatican is waiting for?

Also, are there any miracles (with the exception of personal ones) that have happened due to Medjugorje?

And, didn't JPII say something along the lines that the faithful are not risking their souls by following these apparitions?

[the_rev]

"All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation."
CCC#836





JP2 expressed his desire in a Wednesday Audience to go to Medjugorje.

In addition Vatican Spokesman (Navarro, etc. no idea....) said there is no wrong in going to Medjugorje to seek conversion of heart.

[quote]Also, are there any miracles (with the exception of personal ones) that have happened due to Medjugorje?[/quote]

Beside the miracles of the sun occuring each day, there have been physical healings. And even a person who didn't go to Medjugorje but lived the messages, and prayed through her intercession was healed of MS.

Edited July 4, 2006 by the_rev