On Baptism For Ironmonk

[ReformationNow]

[Thus Luke 11:38 reports that, when Jesus ate at a Pharisee’s house, "[t]he Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash [baptizo] before dinner."]

Wrongo! The Greek word is NOT "baptizo" but rather 'eBaptisthh.

[ Pharisees "do not eat unless they wash [nipto] their hands, observing the tradition of the elders; and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they wash themselves [baptizo]" (Mark 7:3–4a, emphasis added). So baptizo can mean cleansing or ritual washing as well as immersion.]

Wrong again! The word you say is "nipto" is really "nipsontai" and the Greek word you say is "baptizo" is really "Baptisontai."

[ "I have a baptism [baptisma] to be baptized [baptizo] with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished!" (Luke 12:50).]

The second word is not "baptizo" but rather "baptisthhnai."

A study of Greek might be in order for the writer at this site. All I needed was a copy of the Greek New Testament and Strongs Concordance to do my research. I actually have no formal education in Greek language, but anybody can look this up and discover what I have.

[hyperdulia again]

'ebaptishhth is hebrew or aramaic even i can look at that word and tell that much.

try again.

[hyperdulia again]

as a matter of fact every word you claim is Greek is Hebrew.

and doesn't matter what the hebrew words were, because the apostles and our lord were speaking aramaic not hebrew and the nt was written in greek not hebrew. perhaps you could take a class on etymology? or recieve some of the formal education on greek you lack.

[hyperdulia again]

plus if the ords ending "ai" are greek, which i don't think they are, it doesn't mean much greek, like english, is an inflected language endings change with context, example:

malakos one who is soft

malakoi more than one who are soft

[hyperdulia again]

malakai--those who cause others to be soft/sick. it can mean witch too.

[ironmonk]

Thanks Hyper.

Ref... no one can attack the Church teaching and win... never has happened, never will....

If it could happen, why do anti-Catholics lie about the Church?

The reason why they cannot win is because the Church is true. Bottom line.

Stong's concordence is a poor concordence. Their is Greek of today, and ancient Greek... but as Hyper clearly points out, Greek is the first translation, from Aramaic which was spoken by the Apostles.

It all comes down to who was first, and what was taught first... the Catholic Church is the ONLY church that teaches what the Apostles taught. It is the only church that can be traced back to the Apostles with succession.

God Bless, Love in Christ & Mary,

ironmonk

[Lil Red]

Strong's concordence is a poor concordence. Their is Greek of today, and ancient Greek... but as Hyper clearly points out, Greek is the first translation, from Aramaic which was spoken by the Apostles.

I have a Catholic bible study and it lists Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (Thomas Nelson: Nashville, 1997) as a helpful resource. The description the bible study uses of this book is: "Lists every word in the Bible alphabetically with its Scripture reference; assigns a number to each word, corresponding to the original Hebrew or Greek word, which is indexed in the back. Those numbers are used by many other study tools."

So is this a good resource for a bible study or not? I'm confused.

Edited July 25, 2003 by llrddvl@stpius

[ironmonk]

Unless you want to learn Greek, I don't think it's a good resource.

Remember, a 'little knowledge' is dangerous. Many anti-Catholics try to nit pick the bible by using Greek, which is a major mistake seeing that Greek is the first translation. I think the best way to study the bible is to read the bible with the Catechism and Early Church Father writings.

To many people get lost in translation.

God Bless,

ironmonk

[mustbenothing]

For presuppositional reasons: I am a Reformed Protestant.

(hyperdulia again) 'ebaptishhth is hebrew or aramaic even i can look at that word and tell that much.

try again.

(Me) The word is Greek. I have no idea how to write in Greek letters on this website, but the word spelled in Greek is: epsilon beta alpha pi tau iota sigma theta eta

It is a Greek word. It is the first aorist passive indicate of baptizo (beta alpha pi tau iota zeta omega).

(hyperdulia again) as a matter of fact every word you claim is Greek is Hebrew.

(Me) Let's examine each:

"Wrong again! The word you say is "nipto" is really "nipsontai" and the Greek word you say is "baptizo" is really "Baptisontai.""

'nipsontai' and 'baptisontai' are participial forms of 'nipto' and 'baptizo.' Both are Greek.

"The second word is not "baptizo" but rather "baptisthhnai.""

Again, it's just a different form of the word 'baptizo.'

(hyperdulia again) and doesn't matter what the hebrew words were, because the apostles and our lord were speaking aramaic not hebrew and the nt was written in greek not hebrew. perhaps you could take a class on etymology? or recieve some of the formal education on greek you lack.

(Me) I have formal education in Greek.

(ironmonk) Remember, a 'little knowledge' is dangerous.

(Me) This is quite true. DA Carson's Exegetical Fallacies is a great book on how to avoid misusing Greek skills. If you're looking for a scholarly discussion of the Greek text, try something by Bruce Metzger, AT Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament, or Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. Although certainly not inerrant, both Robertson's and Kittel's works are excellent (Metzger's are as well -- and he is one of the greatest living Greek NT scholars -- but they are not nearly as seminal as the other two). They are the scholarly standards. Bauer and Arndt's Lexicon of the NT is the current standard. J. Gresham Machen has a superb beginner's Grammar.

I would be interested in knowing what article (about baptism) this is, as well as reading it. If it is referring to Baptistic beliefs about the mode of baptism (immersionism), I am in agreement (as a conservative Presbyterian/Reformed Christian) with Rome that immersion is not the only proper way to baptize. I consider sprinkling/pouring more appropriate, but wouldn't consider a Christian baptism by immersion to be illegitimate.

[hyperdulia again]

"For presuppositional reasons: I am a Reformed Protestant.

(hyperdulia again) 'ebaptishhth is hebrew or aramaic even i can look at that word and tell that much.

try again.

(Me) The word is Greek. I have no idea how to write in Greek letters on this website, but the word spelled in Greek is: epsilon beta alpha pi tau iota sigma theta eta

It is a Greek word. It is the first aorist passive indicate of baptizo (beta alpha pi tau iota zeta omega).

(hyperdulia again) as a matter of fact every word you claim is Greek is Hebrew.

(Me) Let's examine each:

"Wrong again! The word you say is "nipto" is really "nipsontai" and the Greek word you say is "baptizo" is really "Baptisontai.""

'nipsontai' and 'baptisontai' are participial forms of 'nipto' and 'baptizo.' Both are Greek.

"The second word is not "baptizo" but rather "baptisthhnai.""

Again, it's just a different form of the word 'baptizo.'

(hyperdulia again) and doesn't matter what the hebrew words were, because the apostles and our lord were speaking aramaic not hebrew and the nt was written in greek not hebrew. perhaps you could take a class on etymology? or recieve some of the formal education on greek you lack.

(Me) I have formal education in Greek."

you have a script in micrososft word that you may paste here to write greek letters. thank you! it might be my conceitedness that makes me think so, but i believe you confirmed most what i said.

I live with someone that is working towards a doctorate in biblical languages. I was winging it.

Edited July 28, 2003 by hyperdulia again

[mustbenothing]

(hyperdulia again) you have a script in micrososft word that you may paste here to write greek letters. thank you!

(Me) How can I access it for use on this website?

(hyperdulia again) it might be my conceitedness that makes me think so, but i believe you confirmed most what i said.

(Me) Yes, I think I did :-)

[hyperdulia again]

nevermind...it won't work it's just a different font and everything here comes out in the same font.