megamattman1 Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 I have a question for the phorum regarding salvation. And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. Luke 10:25 God is Jesus of course. (unless we ask a muslim but that's another post) But should we be persistant that this what he meant by God? Of course it would be blunt for Him to say it, but did Jesus really mean "love Me with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself"? Couldn't this mean God in general? Which goes to my other post by the way. (which covers how we can not do as we out but God loves us unconditionally etc) http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=5401 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Darn, Jesus forgot to quote from the Council of Trent, or even for that matter, from the CCC. How could that BE? He didn't....I might point out, even quote from HIS parent denomination, but gave a new answer to that age old question. Born again?? Hmm. Born again? Like in a change of heart, and a confession of faith? Never even bothered to mention anything about old Peter and his rock, nor in sacraments, nor ... nor ... Think this one over. Could we agree that Jesus did tell the truth here, and we are just making this much more complicated than he intended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 How sad that you are such a hate-filled angry person Bruce. Bruce do you reember the part about jots? Mega Jesus certainly did. That is one of the requirements, there are several others mentioned in Scripture as well. Scripture is never something taken one verse at a time, but as a whole garment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrndveritatis Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 ok Bruce and whoever else. Religion aside for the moment so we can actually answer the question for once. What are your guys' interpretation of Lord your God? And what's the rationale that God would allow someone who loves God and neighbor more than a believer be damned to the fires of hell? http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=5401 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 (edited) Bruce do you reember the part about jots? Will you get all "tittle-ated" if I do? Of course if those jots and tittles were what determined fate, Jesus most likely would have included them AT THAT TIME, he didn't. He redefined the rules, and at that very point in time, to a Sanhedrin member, the world began to look differently. YHWH became Abba. Doctrine and ridgid adherance to FORM became less important than belief. Of course, man loves doctrine, so immediately the "Judaisers" came rolling in to try and tell the new converts that there were..."RULES! Darnit, RULES" and don't you all forget that. Rules empower those who can make, shape, and create new ones. Edited January 3, 2004 by Bruce S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 (edited) That is one of the requirements, there are several others mentioned in Scripture as well. are you suggesting Jesus is being deceptive? The lawyer wants to know how to inherit eternal life! Perhaps you have a reason that Jesus doesn't want him to know the full truth that you would care to share? Personally, I read that, and I say "YES YES YES" that is salvation. Loving the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind. A few observations. a) WONDERFUL observation by jrndveritatis asking what Lord your God is. I was going to suggest the same thing. I think that Lord there is referring to his deity. I could write a wrong thread on that as well, it seems to be the majority view in the world anyway. b) with all - how hard is it to love anyone or anything with ALL we are. This I would suggest is impossible on our own, and it must be a gift from the Lord to begin with c) heart, soul, and mind. Ahh the emotions, spiritual life, and the mind are here. You must love with emotion (the heart), you must love with your "soul", your "spiritual nature", something that is only done by God, and you must love with your "mind", you must have intellect and understand. I think that captures the gospel fully. It says to love with all the "mind" and what is greatest about God? His lovingkindness which is promised throughout all Scripture. His redemptive promises (that is his lovingkindness) that He always promises to come through. David rejoices about this all through the psalms. So when you get down to it, I guess it would be You must love God with all you are, understanding that He is Lord (deity), and understanding that redemption, is through Him alone because that is God's promise. edt: oh yeah, and strength too - action! make that volitional commitment. Edited January 3, 2004 by Circle_Master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamattman1 Posted January 3, 2004 Author Share Posted January 3, 2004 just for clarification and so jrd doesn't get mad at me. that's my post above. i was at his house and didn't realize i was using his account! he's my cousin jim. but again so why would God allow someone who follows those commands better than a believer in Jesus to burn in hell for the fundamentalists out there to answer? Isn't God's love unconditional to all regardless of your faith in the Truth? And the only salvation from sin past that (which is by faith alone and by no mean trivial) to live the commandments of loving God and neighbor by your own free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamattman1 Posted January 3, 2004 Author Share Posted January 3, 2004 that is just one of the requirements that IS the requirements! this is the law and the prophets like Jesus said. all the other requirements are only reflective of that one Truth in some way. Just to be clear. Am I missing something cmotherofprl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 that is just one of the requirements that IS the requirements! this is the law and the prophets like Jesus said. all the other requirements are only reflective of that one Truth in some way. Just to be clear. Am I missing something cmotherofprl? Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live Jesus was talking to a righteous Jew who did not know Jesus as the messiah. If he stayed a righteous Jew and fulfilled these commandments he would be saved. But Jesus also said this. Jesus also said unless you are born of the water and the Spirit when he talked to Nichodemus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamattman1 Posted January 3, 2004 Author Share Posted January 3, 2004 ok well see I s'pose I would put that into loving God. If you know the Truth you would follow it. It's kinda along the lines of loving. When someone says you should love, it implies honesty (repentance), trust, faith, etc cuz love includes all those by definition (though sadly they must usually be stated separarely since none of us know how to love as we ought). So it's just a matter of wording it seems. So then you'd have a point in that we need to preach what God intends of us specifically definitly if that's where you're going with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Jesus was talking to a righteous Jew who did not know Jesus as the messiah. If he stayed a righteous Jew and fulfilled these commandments he would be saved. Cmom, how is that a righteous Jew. It says "a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him". The Pharisee's who had dead hearts were the lawyers, and those tempting him are always seen as "Satan-types" [for lack of a better word]. And the point of the "entire" New Testament is that fulfilling the commands will never bring salvation. "What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works." That's really the point - he thought he was righteous enough to have never disobeyed any of the 10 commandments (when even LUSTING is breaking one, when even HATING, or being ANGRY is breaking one). He thought that was the basis of his salvation, and Jesus replies no, "love, loving with your heart, with your soul, with your strength, with your mind. love God and you will be saved." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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