The Problem

[Katholikos]

i think his point is well-taken.

Right. Sure. You betcha.

Christ wrote a book, called it "the Bible," handed it to his Apostles, and said,

"If you convert anyone, just give 'em this. Let the Christians fight over it. Every guy and gal from now until the end of time has to figure out for him or herself what it means. I'm certainly not going to tell them. I want followers who think for themselves. Won't it be fun watching them from heaven? Hardy har har hee hee (slaps his knee).

"Oh, yeah, I know, most people can't read and write. It's going to stay that way for centuries. But that's their problem. All they need to know about God and their eternal salvation is in this book. Finding the answers will be like a treasure hunt -- some will get it, but most won't. And they'll never be able to figure out who's got the right answers and who's wrong! Ha ha ha ha ha (bends over laughing).

"Oh, you say don't have any printing presses, copy machines, computers or translators to make copies? Well, that's your problem. It will be interesting to see how you solve it. This will be a little test for you. "

50% of the world's population is still illiterate, including 40 million Americans.

The irrational, illogical doctrines of Protestantism turned me to atheism. In fact, in the final analysis, Protestantism and atheism are synonomous.

JMJ Likos

[mulls]

i believe you missed the point of the response to which i was referring.

i'll leave it to the author to explain it if he so chooses.

Protestantism and atheism are synonomous

i'll remember that. you are an amazing person.

Edited January 2, 2004 by mulls

[Circle_Master]

I believe katholikos doesn't understand a single thing about salvation by faith, or a single thing protestants teach.

here's some examples

a) if you believe that protestants teach

Christ wrote a book, called it "the Bible," handed it to his Apostles, and said,

"If you convert anyone, just give 'em this. Let the Christians fight over it. Every guy and gal from now until the end of time has to figure out for him or herself what it means. I'm certainly not going to tell them. I want followers who think for themselves. Won't it be fun watching them from heaven? Hardy har har hee hee (slaps his knee).

then you are wrong.

b) if you believe that protestants teach

"Oh, yeah, I know, most people can't read and write. It's going to stay that way for centuries. But that's their problem. All they need to know about God and their eternal salvation is in this book. Finding the answers will be like a treasure hunt -- some will get it, but most won't. And they'll never be able to figure out who's got the right answers and who's wrong! Ha ha ha ha ha (bends over laughing).

then you are wrong

c) if you believe protestants teach

"Oh, you say don't have any printing presses, copy machines, computers or translators to make copies? Well, that's your problem. It will be interesting to see how you solve it. This will be a little test for you. "

then you are wrong

d) if you believe protestants teach

The irrational, illogical doctrines of Protestantism turned me to atheism. In fact, in the final analysis, Protestantism and atheism are synonomous.

Then you are not only wrong, but self deluded, arrogant, and incapable of seeing any truth as Romans 1:21-22.

So do you want to know what protestants teach, or are you going to just keep lying and believing you are God on earth and know everything about them?

[cmotherofpirl]

I wouldn't say they are synonomous, but in the end they are in agreement.

Both admit no final authority other than themselves, their interpretation.

Catholics think there is an objective Truth(GOD) out there, not subject to private interpretation. He sets standards that we cannot change or be flexible about. So abortion will always be wrong, divorce will never be acceptable. Do catholics have abortions and get divorced? Yep. Will the Church ever say its acceptable . no.

[cmotherofpirl]

I think likos used to BE protestant.

[Circle_Master]

Both admit no final authority other than themselves, their interpretation.

Catholics think there is an objective Truth(GOD) out there, not subject to private interpretation. He sets standards that we cannot change or be flexible about. So abortion will always be wrong, divorce will never be acceptable. Do catholics have abortions and get divorced? Yep. Will the Church ever say its acceptable . no.

Protestants admit that Scripture is the final authority. And since Scripture is a collection of LETTERS, and HISTORICAL RECORDS, and PROPHECIES, normal means of studying them works fine. To suggest otherwise adds a mysticism to Scripture which it never speaks of itself, and which was never practiced in the Old Testament according to SCRIPTURE, and HISTORY, and JEWISH TRADITION.

Catholicism also said 700 years ago that it was impossible to be saved outside of the Church. Catholic Fathers also said 1700 years ago that some were chosen before the foundations of the world for damnation, and some for salvation, and we could do nothing about it. However, it disagrees with both of those teachings today. What happened?!? I would say within 100 years, Catholicism will support gay priests, and women priests.

I think likos used to BE protestant.

Well he must be as you like to refer to Martin Luther. You say Martin Luther never understood Catholicism. I can guarantee that what Katholic says protestantism is, Mulls, and Bruce disagree with as well as I.

[cmotherofpirl]

THat is not really true Circle , because protestants can't agree to what scripture means because they have rejected any FINAL authority to interpret it. To interpret something you must be outside and above it. SCripture cannot interpret itself. And without final authority its your opinion against everybody elses.

It is impossible to be saved outside the Church. THat doctrine has never changed.

Make sure you understand WHAT it means before you disagree it.

Edited January 2, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[Bruce S]

It is impossible to be saved outside the Church. THat doctrine has never changed.

Make sure you understand WHAT it means before you disagree it.

Ooops.

Perhaps someone should tell Pope John Paul II that too, I coulda SWORN that he said one could.

Oh well, what does JPII know?

He isn't on this thread....

Maybe we ought to just defer to the the anti Protestants here, and stop going to church, order playboy channel on our TV, and hold up a bank for extra money, heck, since we are NOT Catholic, we are damned anyway if you are right.

Shucks, here I am wasting all this time being CHRISTIAN, and I should be CATHOLIC, not Christian if that is the ONLY gameplan outta here that leads to heaven.

DO YOU HONESTLY ... TEACH THAT IS TRUE ON THIS SITE?

Edited January 2, 2004 by Bruce S

[Circle_Master]

I could have sworn numerous Catholics said that I was there brother on this site as well, and many protestants were getting into heaven.

however, I am positive, and in open rebellion of submitting to any Roman Pontificate as the Unam Sanctum says.

Edited January 2, 2004 by Circle_Master

[cmotherofpirl]

So of course you ignor WHAT I SAID. :D

I said understand it BEFORE you disagree with it.

[Circle_Master]

There is only one interpretation for

"Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is

absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be

subject to the Roman Pontiff."

and if you notice, there is no word "church" there. and last I checked, the Roman Pontiff was the pope. If there is another interpretation, which you keep saying, please give it instead of teasing us.