How old is your church?

[the flutehonker]

[img]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i149/the7messengers/howold1.gif[/img]

[cmotherofpirl]

The original list was written by dear Abby or Ann landers I can't remember which:

If you are a member of the Jewish faith, your religion was founded by Abraham about 4,000 years ago.
If you are a Hindu, your religion was developed in India around 1,500 B.C.

If you are a Buddhist, your religion split from Hinduism, and was founded by Buddha, Prince Siddhartha Gautama of India, about 500 B.C.

If you are Catholic, Jesus Christ began your religion in the year 33.

If you are Islamic, Mohammed started your religion in what is now Saudi Arabia around 600 A.D.

If you are Eastern Orthodox, your sect separated from Catholicism around the year 1000.

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded my Martin Luther, an ex-Monk of the Catholic Church, in 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England (Anglican), your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded when John Knox brought the teachings of John Calvin to Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Unitarian, your religious group developed in Europe in the 1500's

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion branched off from Puritanism in the early 1600's in England.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1607.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was founded by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are an Episcopalian, your religion was brought over from England, to the American colonies and formed a separate religion founded by Samuel Seabury in 1789.

If you are a Mormon (Latter-Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your church in Palmyra, N.Y., NOT Salt Lake City, which would have been my guess. The year was 1830.

If you worship with the Salvation Army (yes, it's a religious group, not just an organization that collects money in kettles on Christmas and serves dinners to the homeless), your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year your religion was founded by Mary Baker Eddy.

If you are a Jehovah's Witness, your religion was founded by Charles Taze Russell in Pennsylvania in the 1870's.

If you are a Pentecostal, your religion was started in the United States in 1901.

If you are an agnostic, you profess an uncertainty or a skepticism about the existence of God or a Higher Being.

If you are an atheist, you do not believe in the existence of God or any other higher power.

[ironmonk]

If you want to get practical, the worship of the One True God goes back to the beginning of man, it took on the name "Jewish" with Abraham.

[KatS]

[quote]If you are Catholic, Jesus Christ began your religion in the year 33. [/quote]

Cool

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1008023' date='Jun 19 2006, 12:02 AM']
The original list was written by dear Abby or Ann landers I can't remember which:

If you are a member of the Jewish faith, your religion was founded by Abraham about 4,000 years ago.
If you are a Hindu, your religion was developed in India around 1,500 B.C.

If you are a Buddhist, your religion split from Hinduism, and was founded by Buddha, Prince Siddhartha Gautama of India, about 500 B.C.

[color="#FF0000"]If you are a Christian Jesus instituted a new covenant in the year 33 AD.[/color]

If you are Catholic, [color="#FF0000"]Constantine[/color] began your religion in the year [color="#FF0000"]391[/color].

If you are Islamic, Mohammed started your religion in what is now Saudi Arabia around 600 A.D.

If you are Eastern Orthodox, your sect separated from Catholicism around the year 1000.

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded my Martin Luther, an ex-Monk of the Catholic Church, in 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England (Anglican), your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded when John Knox brought the teachings of John Calvin to Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Unitarian, your religious group developed in Europe in the 1500's

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion branched off from Puritanism in the early 1600's in England.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1607.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was founded by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are an Episcopalian, your religion was brought over from England, to the American colonies and formed a separate religion founded by Samuel Seabury in 1789.

If you are a Mormon (Latter-Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your church in Palmyra, N.Y., NOT Salt Lake City, which would have been my guess. The year was 1830.

If you worship with the Salvation Army (yes, it's a religious group, not just an organization that collects money in kettles on Christmas and serves dinners to the homeless), your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year your religion was founded by Mary Baker Eddy.

If you are a Jehovah's Witness, your religion was founded by Charles Taze Russell in Pennsylvania in the 1870's.

If you are a Pentecostal, your religion was started in the United States in 1901.

If you are an agnostic, you profess an uncertainty or a skepticism about the existence of God or a Higher Being.

If you are an atheist, you do not believe in the existence of God or any other higher power.
[/quote]

Sorry, just a couple of quick corrections. Nice list.

Edited June 19, 2006 by Jesuspaidtheprice

[KatS]

Hi J.P.T.P.,

Where did you get that date?

"If you are Catholic, Constantine began your religion in the year 391."

[MichaelF]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' post='1008298' date='Jun 19 2006, 01:50 PM']
Sorry, just a couple of quick corrections. Nice list.
[/quote]

By "corrections", evidently you mean "anti-Catholic propoganda", nicht wehr?

Constantine -legalized- the Christian faith.

Constantine is best remembered in modern times for the Edict of Milan in 313, which fully legalized Christianity in the Empire, for the first time, and the Council of Nicaea in 325; these actions are considered major factors in the spreading of the Christian religion. His reputation as the "first Christian Emperor" has been promulgated by historians from Lactantius and Eusebius of Caesarea to the present day; although there has been debate over the veracity of his faith because he was baptized only on his death bed (by an Arian Bishop, ironically).

He had exactly -zero- to do with the structure or teachings of the Church. His major interest in the Council of Nicaea was that the Arian Heresy ("Christ is not God, but a Creation only.") be resolved without a major civil war erupting.

[b]Addendum: If Constantine did -anything- in 391, he did it from beyond the grave. He'd been dead for 54 years.... [/b]

However, you shouldnt let facts and accurate numbers get in the way of a good anti-Catholic screed.

Edited June 19, 2006 by MichaelF

[cmotherofpirl]

lol
Jesus Christ only founded one church in 33 AD. The term catholic [ meaning universal, since there is only one] was applied later by a Church father.
Generic christianity is at the end of the line. For example, the evangelical group in America just had its 100th birthday.

[KatS]

[quote]Sorry, just a couple of quick corrections. Nice list.



By "corrections", evidently you mean "anti-Catholic propoganda", nicht wehr?[/quote]

Ha ha, that's what I was thinking but I was too "nice" to say!


[quote]Addendum: If Constantine did -anything- in 391, he did it from beyond the grave. He'd been dead for 54 years.... [/quote]

This gives me another good laugh.

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' post='1008298' date='Jun 19 2006, 01:50 PM']
Sorry, just a couple of quick corrections. Nice list.
[/quote]



The First 1000 Years

St. Peter (32-67)
St. Linus (67-76)
St. Anacletus (76-88)
St. Clement I (88-97)
St. Evaristus (97-105)
St. Alexander I (105-115)
St. Sixtus I (115-125)
St. Telesphorus (125-136)
St. Hyginus (136-140)
St. Pius I (140-155)
St. Anicetus (155-166)
St. Soter (166-175)
St. Eleutherius (175-189)
St. Victor I (189-199)
St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
St. Callistus I (217-22)
St. Urban I (222-30)
St. Pontain (230-35)
St. Anterus (235-36)
St. Fabian (236-50)
St. Cornelius (251-53)
St. Lucius I (253-54)
St. Stephen I (254-257)
St. Sixtus II (257-258)
St. Dionysius (260-268)
St. Felix I (269-274)
St. Eutychian (275-283)
St. Caius (283-296)
St. Marcellinus (296-304)
St. Marcellus I (308-309)
St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
St. Miltiades (311-14)
St. Sylvester I (314-35)
St. Marcus (336)
St. Julius I (337-52)
Liberius (352-66)
St. Damasus I (366-83)
St. Siricius (384-99)
St. Anastasius I (399-401)
St. Innocent I (401-17)
St. Zosimus (417-18)
St. Boniface I (418-22)
St. Celestine I (422-32)
St. Sixtus III (432-40)
St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)
St. Hilarius (461-68)
St. Simplicius (468-83)
St. Felix III (II) (483-92)
St. Gelasius I (492-96)
Anastasius II (496-98)
St. Symmachus (498-514)
St. Hormisdas (514-23)
St. John I (523-26)
St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)
Boniface II (530-32)
John II (533-35)
St. Agapetus I (535-36)
St. Silverius (536-37)
Vigilius (537-55)
Pelagius I (556-61)
John III (561-74)
Benedict I (575-79)
Pelagius II (579-90)
St. Gregory I (590-604)
Sabinian (604-606)
Boniface III (607)
St. Boniface IV (608-15)
St. Deusdedit (615-18)
Boniface V (619-25)
Honorius I (625-38)
Severinus (640)
John IV (640-42)
Theodore I (642-49)
St. Martin I (649-55)
St. Eugene I (655-57)
St. Vitalian (657-72)
Adeodatus (II) (672-76)
Donus (676-78)
St. Agatho (678-81)
St. Leo II (682-83)
St. Benedict II (684-85)
John V (685-86)
Conon (686-87)
St. Sergius I (687-701)
John VI (701-05)
John VII (705-07)
Sisinnius (708)
Constantine (708-15)
St. Gregory II (715-31)
St. Gregory III (731-41)
St. Zachary (741-52)
Stephen II (752)
Stephen III (752-57)
St. Paul I (757-67)
Stephen IV (767-72)
Adrian I (772-95)
St. Leo III (795-816)
Stephen V (816-17)
St. Paschal I (817-24)
Eugene II (824-27)
Valentine (827)
Gregory IV (827-44)
Sergius II (844-47)
St. Leo IV (847-55)
Benedict III (855-58)
St. Nicholas I (858-67)
Adrian II (867-72)
John VIII (872-82)
Marinus I (882-84)
St. Adrian III (884-85)
Stephen VI (885-91)
Formosus (891-96)
Boniface VI (896)
Stephen VII (896-97)
Romanus (897)
Theodore II (897)
John IX (898-900)
Benedict IV (900-03)
Leo V (903)
Sergius III (904-11)
Anastasius III (911-13)
Lando (913-14)
John X (914-28)
Leo VI (928)
Stephen VIII (929-31)
John XI (931-35)
Leo VII (936-39)
Stephen IX (939-42)
Marinus II (942-46)
Agapetus II (946-55)
John XII (955-63)
Leo VIII (963-64)
Benedict V (964)
John XIII (965-72)
Benedict VI (973-74)
Benedict VII (974-83)
John XIV (983-84)
John XV (985-96)
Gregory V (996-99)
Sylvester II (999-1003)


The Second 1000 Years

John XVII (1003)
John XVIII (1003-09)
Sergius IV (1009-12)
Benedict VIII (1012-24)
John XIX (1024-32)
Benedict IX (1032-45)
Sylvester III (1045)
Benedict IX (1045)
Gregory VI (1045-46)
Clement II (1046-47)
Benedict IX (1047-48)
Damasus II (1048)
St. Leo IX (1049-54)
Victor II (1055-57)
Stephen X (1057-58)
Nicholas II (1058-61)
Alexander II (1061-73)
St. Gregory VII (1073-85)
Blessed Victor III (1086-87)
Blessed Urban II (1088-99)
Paschal II (1099-1118)
Gelasius II (1118-19)
Callistus II (1119-24)
Honorius II (1124-30)
Innocent II (1130-43)
Celestine II (1143-44)
Lucius II (1144-45)
Bl. Eugene III (1145-53)
Anastasius IV (1153-54)
Adrian IV (1154-59)
Alexander III (1159-81)
Lucius III (1181-85)
Urban III (1185-87)
Gregory VIII (1187)
Clement III (1187-91)
Celestine III (1191-98)
Innocent III (1198-1216)
Honorius III (1216-27)
Gregory IX (1227-41)
Celestine IV (1241)
Innocent IV (1243-54)
Alexander IV (1254-61)
Urban IV (1261-64)
Clement IV (1265-68)
Blessed Gregory X (1271-76)
Blessed Innocent V (1276)
Adrian V (1276)
John XXI (1276-77)
Nicholas III (1277-80)
Martin IV (1281-85)
Honorius IV (1285-87)
Nicholas IV (1288-92)
St. Celestine V (1294)
Boniface VIII (1294-1303)
Bl. Benedict XI (1303-04)
Clement V (1305-14)
John XXII (1316-34)
Benedict XII (1334-42)
Clement VI (1342-52)
Innocent VI (1352-62)
Blessed Urban V (1362-70)
Gregory XI (1370-78)
Urban VI (1378-89)
Boniface IX (1389-1404)
Innocent VII (1406-06)
Gregory XII (1406-15)
Martin V (1417-31)
Eugene IV (1431-47)
Nicholas V (1447-55)
Callistus III (1455-58)
Pius II (1458-64)
Paul II (1464-71)
Sixtus IV (1471-84)
Innocent VIII (1484-92)
Alexander VI (1492-1503)
Pius III (1503)
Julius II (1503-13)
Leo X (1513-21)
Adrian VI (1522-23)
Clement VII (1523-34)
Paul III (1534-49)
Julius III (1550-55)
Marcellus II (1555)
Paul IV (1555-59)
Pius IV (1559-65)
St. Pius V (1566-72)
Gregory XIII (1572-85)
Sixtus V (1585-90)
Urban VII (1590)
Gregory XIV (1590-91)
Innocent IX (1591)
Clement VIII (1592-1605)
Leo XI (1605)
Paul V (1605-21)
Gregory XV (1621-23)
Urban VIII (1623-44)
Innocent X (1644-55)
Alexander VII (1655-67)
Clement IX (1667-69)
Clement X (1670-76)
Bl. Innocent XI (1676-89)
Alexander VIII (1689-91)
Innocent XII (1691-1700)
Clement XI (1700-21)
Innocent XIII (1721-24)
Benedict XIII (1724-30)
Clement XII (1730-40)
Benedict XIV (1740-58)
Clement XIII (1758-69)
Clement XIV (1769-74)
Pius VI (1775-99)
Pius VII (1800-23)
Leo XII (1823-29)
Pius VIII (1829-30)
Gregory XVI (1831-46)
Blessed Pius IX (1846-78)
Leo XIII (1878-1903)
St. Pius X (1903-14)
Benedict XV (1914-22)
Pius XI (1922-39)
Pius XII (1939-58)
Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)
Paul VI (1963-78)
John Paul I (1978)
John Paul II (1978-2005)
Benedict XVI (2005- )


to me that looks like it began before 391

Edited June 19, 2006 by ReinnieR

[KatS]

[quote]to me that looks like it began before 391[/quote]

Slam dunk!

I have the book "A History of the Popes" and Catholic tradition and leadership was there looooong before Constantine blew in on the scene.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Jesuspaidtheprice,
To say that Constantine began the Catholic religion is a grave historical inaccuracy and one that cannot be defended with facts. I really cannot put it any other way but that to say it is absurd. God bless.

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

There is little, if anything historically accessible on many of the early 'popes' in that list and whether or not they were 'Catholic' is a matter of assumption and faith. You may consider it 'absurd' but you hardly support it with relevant data. Until you can brush up on your Catholic scholarship, I would with hold making such judgments. Ya really are an emotional bunch here, its not much good in a debate, but it makes your forum lively.

[quote name='ReinnieR' post='1008405' date='Jun 19 2006, 05:12 PM']
The First 1000 Years

St. Peter (32-67)
St. Linus (67-76)
...
John Paul I (1978)
John Paul II (1978-2005)
Benedict XVI (2005- )
to me that looks like it began before 391
[/quote]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' post='1008449' date='Jun 19 2006, 06:32 PM']
There is little, if anything historically accessible on many of the early 'popes' in that list and whether or not they were 'Catholic' is a matter of assumption and faith. You may consider it 'absurd' but you hardly support it with relevant data. Until you can brush up on your Catholic scholarship, I would with hold making such judgments. Ya really are an emotional bunch here, its not much good in a debate, but it makes your forum lively.
[/quote]
Well, you must keep in mind that the early popes didn't have much time to hold councils and write things down, but we do have some proofs. First off, the liturgy has remained relatively the same since the very beginning, and we see proof of that in the early Christian writers. There's a phrase in the Church, lex orandi, lex credendi, that is, the law of prayer is the law of belief, or, in simple English, we pray as we believe. So if you look at the liturgy which was passed down, it becomes very apparent that the popes who prayed that liturgy were following the same faith recorded by the early Christians and the same faith we still follow today. Of course, that's just one point among many.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' post='1008449' date='Jun 19 2006, 04:32 PM']
There is little, if anything historically accessible on many of the early 'popes' in that list and whether or not they were 'Catholic' is a matter of assumption and faith. You may consider it 'absurd' but you hardly support it with relevant data. Until you can brush up on your Catholic scholarship, I would with hold making such judgments. Ya really are an emotional bunch here, its not much good in a debate, but it makes your forum lively.
[/quote]
The facts are as MichaelF stated.

Constantine did not in any way invent or found the Catholic Church. It was already well established and in existance when Constantine began his reign. Constantine merely made Christianity (the Catholic Church) legal in 313 with his Edict of Milan, and was only baptized on his death-bed. These are well-established historical facts. Look them up in any reputable encyclopedia.

There is indeed solid evidence in writing and Christian tradition of these early Popes, beginning with St. Peter, who was appointed earthly head of the Church by Jesus Christ Himself. (Matt. 16:18-20)
No one ever denied the existance of these early Popes until many centuries later, after the Protestant Revolt.
You simply refuse to acknowledge the historical existance that exists. In this way, your reasoning is no different from that of the unbelieving so-called "rationalists," who deny the historicity of the Gospels themselves.

It is you who are making an unverifiable claim here, by asserting that Constantine founded the Catholic Church. You have failed to provide any historical evidence that he did any such thing. The burden of proof is on you. We have provided historical facts - all you have provided are ad-hominems and unproven assertions.