Hawking Wrong About Pope

[cmotherofpirl]

Catholic League: Hawking Wrong About Pope


Catholic League president Bill Donohue took issue with astrophysicist Stephen Hawking for claiming yesterday that Pope John Paul II once told scientists that "It’s OK to study the universe and where it began. But we should not inquire into the beginning itself because that was the moment of creation and the work of God.” The news story says Hawking did not say when the Pope allegedly made this remark.


Said Donohue: "There is a monumental difference between saying that there are certain questions that science cannot answer” which is what the Pope said - and authoritarian pronouncements warning scientists to back off.



"On p. 120 of Hawking’s book, 'A Brief History of Time,' he says that at a 1981 Vatican conference on cosmology Pope John Paul II said that it was all right to study the evolution of the universe after the Big Bang, but we should not inquire into the Big Bang itself because that was the moment of Creation and therefore the work of God. Importantly, there are no quotation marks around those words and no citation is offered. Ergo, this is Hawking’s impression of what the Pope said.

Donohue continued with the actual statement made by then-Pope John Paul II.


"Here is what the Pope actually said: ‘Every scientific hypothesis about the origin of the world, such as the one that says that there is a basic atom from which the whole of the physical universe is derived, leaves unanswered the problem concerning the beginning of the universe. By itself science cannot resolve such a question.’ The Pope then quoted Pope Pius XII as saying, ‘We would wait in vain for an answer from the natural sciences which declare, on the contrary, that they honestly find themselves faced with an insoluble enigma.’


"In 1988, John Paul said that ‘Science can purify religion from error and superstition; religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes.’ Hawking, who claims - without any evidence that space and time have no beginning and no end, would be wise to refrain from positing false absolutes and learn to realize when he’s out of his league. Most important, he should stop distorting the words of the pope.”

[Dreamweaver]

I read about Hawking's statement yesterday, and I knew there was something fishy about it. Pope John Paul II has been very supportive of the sciences (embryonic stem cells and cloning don't count!)

[musturde]

The news agencies don't know that though.......

[Justified Saint]

Now, I have only taken introductory courses on astronomy, but as I was taught the Big Bang, there is no possible way to speculate "before" or about the Big Bang itself for this would be by definition meaningless since time and space only exist after the Big Bang. So, what is the misunderstanding?

Also, Donohue said there are certain questions science can't answer, but what is more there are certain questions science can't even [i]ask[/i].

[jswranch]

I am currently drafting a letter to the editor on this topic because they ran Hawking's statements.

[Era Might]

[b]SALESMAN[/b]: This is our best model. The Cougar 9000. It's the Rolls Royce of wheelchairs. This is like...you're almost glad to be handicapped.

[b]KRAMER[/b]: So now, what's this got?

[b]SALESMAN[/b]: Inductive joystick, dynamic braking, flip-up arms, it's fully loaded. I put Stephen Hawking in one of these two months ago, he's lovin' it! It's rated number one by Hospital Supply and Prosthetic Magazine.

[b]GEORGE[/b]: How much?

[b]SALESMAN[/b]: 6200

[b]GEORGE[/b]: Do you have something a little more...less expensive?

[KatS]

Gee, it surprises me that Hawking believes in the Big Bang at all because it was a Catholic idea. A French priest, Father LaMaitre (I may have misspelled it) theorized that there was "a first day" or "a first moment".

Scientists apparently can also be "cafeteria scientists" too.

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

This is off topic, but I'm curious, what do you do with the early geneologies in Genesis if you don't take it to be a historical document (especially Genesis 1-11)? Why include them if they weren't meant to be understood as history?

JPTP

[jswranch]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' post='1008302' date='Jun 19 2006, 12:53 PM']
This is off topic, but I'm curious, what do you do with the early geneologies in Genesis if you don't take it to be a historical document (especially Genesis 1-11)? Why include them if they weren't meant to be understood as history?

JPTP
[/quote]
We are to understand them as theology, not history. It one thing to tell the origen of man and another to tell the history of man.

Edited June 19, 2006 by jswranch

[KatS]

[quote]We are to understand them as theology, not history.[/quote]

The Bible can tell us the *why* of creation; Science can tell us *how* and *when*.

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

It still doesn't explain the rational behind including lineages within the first chapters of Genesis (seeing that Catholics tend to accept Abraham as a historical man) if it is meant only to teach theology through mythical accounts of creation. There is no real point to include a detailed family tree to mythical people.

[jswranch]

Letter to editor of local paper who ran the Hawking quote. I plan to send it tomorrow, so please hack and slash it.


I am distraught over “Physicist discusses Vatican, science,” on 18 June as it incorrectly portrayed the Catholic position on science and faith. First, Stephen Hawking misquoted the words and intent of our previous Pope, John Paul the Great. Second, The Gazette was irresponsible by not checking Hawking’s source.

John Paul said, “Every scientific hypothesis about the origin of the world, such as the one that says that there is a basic atom from which the whole of the physical universe is derived, leaves unanswered the problem concerning the beginning of the universe. By itself science cannot resolve such a question….” Hawking erred by alleging the Pope said scientists should not inquire into the beginning of the universe because that was the moment of creation and the work of God. John Paul did said ‘Science can purify religion from error and superstition; religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes.’ Hawking should refrain from false absolutes by not distorting the words of the pope.

As for The Gazette, the article has continued bigotry by stereotyping Holy Mother Church as anti-science. The Gazette should run an article to promote awareness by celebrating contributions to science made by Catholic Bishops and Priests including Fr. Lemaitre’s founding of the Big Bang theory, Fr. De Vico’s discovery of 6 comets, Bishop Theodoric’s invention of general anesthesia during the ‘dark ages,’ and Bishop Steno as a father of geology and discovery of fossilization.

[KatS]

[quote]including Fr. Lemaitre’s founding of the Big Bang theory[/quote]

Sorry, my bad...Fr. Lemaitre didn't come up with the actual words "Big Bang," (it was an insult for the theory long after Fr. Lemaitre died) but he was the first man to conceive of a definite first moment in time.

This is what I got off Wikipedia:

Father Georges-Henri Lemaître (July 17, 1894 – June 20, 1966) was a Belgian Roman Catholic priest and astronomer.

"Fr. Lemaître proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, although he called it his 'hypothesis of the primeval atom'. He based his theory, published in 1935 on the laws of relativity set forth by Einstein, among others, as well as ancient cosmological-philosophical traditions, although at the time Einstein believed in an eternal universe and had previously directed derogatory comments at Fr. Lemaître's mathematical competence."

I've read your article twice, and it sounds great! Let us know when it is published in the paper.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' post='1008325' date='Jun 19 2006, 03:12 PM']
It still doesn't explain the rational behind including lineages within the first chapters of Genesis (seeing that Catholics tend to accept Abraham as a historical man) if it is meant only to teach theology through mythical accounts of creation. There is no real point to include a detailed family tree to mythical people.
[/quote]

They are historical, but not necessarily complete lists.

[kateri05]

oh adam and eve are real people - the Church definitely teaches that because of the doctrine of original sin.