thessalonian Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I've heard his canned approach by a guy named Todd Friel many times. I do wish someone would bring it up to me. I would say I have a moral certainty that my sins have been forgiven by Christ and so by his grace am a good person at this moment. By his grace I will be tommorrow as well if I do not fall in to serious sin. Then the fun would begin because that doesn't fit with their canned script at all. Actually for people who don't know much I do think their approach has some merrit. It's basically the Law and Gospel approach. But as I have heard it is is way to inflexible with various sorts of people at various levels of understanding and comes accross as insincere after a while I think. That is in the area of real concern for the person. [quote name='Raphael' post='1007836' date='Jun 18 2006, 05:06 PM'] I actually know of street evangelists who say that once you convert, you no longer sin. [/quote] In the words of my favorite Catholic Apologist, James Akin, "that's NUTZ" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesuspaidtheprice Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 [quote name='Dave' post='1006952' date='Jun 16 2006, 02:59 PM'] In Open Mic there's a thread regarding Kirk Cameron's show "The Way of the Master," so I looked at their site. Apparently, as part of the program, they go around and street-witness, and they usually start off by asking someone, "Do you think you're a good person?" And then they get into the Ten Commandments, going through them all and seeing which ones the person has broken and telling them that if they've sinned then they're not good people -- at least not good enough to get to heaven. Well of course, there's the issue of venial sin, mortal sin, etc. But that's not what I'm concerned about right now. We're all sinners, of course; none of us would deny that. And we can't make it to heaven on our own; we need Jesus and His grace. But then there's the issue of whether or not we're "good people." Despite the original sin we were born into, God made us in His own image, so that can't possibly mean we're bad people; God doesn't make junk. I think the Protestant idea of "total depravity" comes into play here -- the idea that original sin makes us evil by nature and that we're capable of absolutely nothing good whatsoever. So I guess my question is, what would you say if Kirk Cameron stopped you on the street and asked if you thought you were a good person? [/quote] I would probably be far to preoccupied that Kirk Cameron was standing in front of me and attempt to get his autograph. Then I would ask him what in the hell happened to his acting career. The point remains a valid one though. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 [quote name='Convert4888' post='1008266' date='Jun 19 2006, 11:54 AM'] Thats a little harsh don't you think? I doubt Kirk Cameron is turning people off. Or at least trying to. And... A missionary of what? Where do you minister? Secoundly, I wouldnt pretend to know or presume the actions of GOD. It keeps me outta trouble. Jesus over turned the money tables in the temple and drove people out with a cat of nine tales. I bet no one was expecting Jesus do that. The idea is. I wouldnt presume anything, it keeps you outta trouble. [/quote] Oh come on! I say I'll fight everyone... I don't actually mean i'd punch or hurt anyone, it's a metaphor for displeasure. I don't know if HE is turning people off... at least not the ladies... But his "method" certainly does. I have extensive first-hand experience. And I'm a campus missionary in Canada. And I don't "presume" the actions of God... I do however, know how He saves people because it's been revealed through scripture and tradition. I let Him use me every day for His purposes. And Jesus is NOT trying to win souls when He's overturning the tables... He's teaching a lesson about purity and piety. It has no bearing on this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I would hopefully think more about it in moral terms. I'm great in a lot of things, but sometimes I really smell of elderberries at the whole Christian thing. Honest answer I think would be something like I have my better moments moved by the Holy Spirit but really the time the only good I've got is the grace of God to forgive me because I fall so far short of living truly pleasing to God in my motivations and my actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Listen to Kirk, being "good" doesnt save you, you must be born again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 [quote name='Convert4888' post='1008170' date='Jun 19 2006, 09:47 AM'] Pilgrim Holiness Protestants... Our family knew a few and they believe that when you are saved you no longer sin. As for the other issue I see what you are pointing out. We are evil people we are just sinners unworthy of the grace of God. So can we become evil? [/quote] I'm not sure, but I think you mean we are NOT evil people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkaands Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 [quote name='Raphael' post='1007845' date='Jun 18 2006, 04:23 PM'] I ran into ours on the way back from class at the University of Nebraska. I always make sure to wear Catholic t-shirts around them now. [/quote] Good for you. [mod]Uncharitable comment. Be nice. - inDIZZLE[/mod] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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