mulls Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 yep, what Bruce said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquamarine Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 (edited) >>And many Protestant denominations believe it must be a VOLUNTARY INFORMED action, something an infant can't do.<< Hence the sacrament of Confirmation... The child cannot speak for him or her self at birth, but the parents, whom God has entrusted with this child, can and must. The sacrament of Baptism is where parents and godparents formally and openly commit their child to the Church and commit themselves to raising the child within the Church, and where the Church welcomes that child in return. Later, the sacrament of Confirmation allows the grown child to confirm that commitment voluntarily and as an informed individual. The individual is free to reject the Church at this time as well. Edited to add: I'm not sure that a baptised Catholic (confirmed or not) who leaves the Church and receives a second baptism under another denomination (or free-agent ceremony - in an apt. complex pool..?? Yikes!! I'd be thinking of all the little kids who'd peed in it earlier, LOL! J/K) negates the original baptism by his or her actions. I think the sacraments are forever, and the grace extended to us through them remains with us until we make a final and non-retractable rejection of them. I'm not sure, though. Edited January 2, 2004 by aquamarine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalscout Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 actually, i wasn't baptized in another denomination. i did it at my friend's apartment complex, in an indoor heated pool (how sweet is that! ) 4 of my friends were present, i gave my testimony, we prayed, read some scripture, and made the confession that, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, like the eunuch in Acts 8. no 'church', no denomination, just me and the Lord and some fellow believers. it was a beautiful thing. I don't cast stones. You found Christ and that is great. I started this post because I saw that I knew nothing of my Faith and still know very little compare to most here but yet had drawn conclusions based on my ignorance. Unlike you none of my friends are Catholic and half of my family is not Catholic yet I was raised that way. My college life mirrored yours but my partying extended into my 30s. You see I want to know why you left. If the change of the new church opened your eyes then why not go back and see what you can see from your original Faith? Granted you will not get hand clapping alleluias in Mass but the message might seem much clearer. The reason I say this is because I believe that our Faith is the True Original Church so Truth exists here regardless of some of the people we might encounter. Do I expect a beam of light to shine on your head and a host of Angels in song, no but your life of self indulgence needed saving and you found it, thank God, but maybe there is more in the Faith that you left. I’m not trying to convert you but if you felt the way I feel maybe we left the Church at those times because we really did not know it. Just a thought Mull, God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 that's a very fair point and very well said, people can learn from posts like that. it's just that God has brought me this far, and I see no reason to change course, unless He mandates it. I also disagree with Catholicism. I've been to one mass since my conversion, my grandfather's funeral mass, and I had a very bad experience. I will dig up an old thread about it if you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rev Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Reading about the being baptized twice. Actually, I was baptized twice, once at the hospital, and once at church to make it "official" They had no hope that I was going to live, so they either baptized me or gave me the last rites, well my family was told by a priest, that I should be baptized where it could be witnessed by the church community, hence I live. So I was baptized at the hospital and church. Was that wrong? Help me! (When saying Church I'm referring to the Catholic Church and also a Catholic Priest) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Rev, was it the same priest? One is only truly baptised once (probably when you were at the hospital), but it sounds like they went through a ceremony so that others could take part in it, you could have Godparents participating, et cetera. I've heard of them having emergency baptisms and then having something ceremonial later. Perhaps it was just a renewal of the baptismal vows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Mulls, My apologies that there were no "on-fire" Catholics nearby to help you out in your time of distress. Question: when you were baptized in the heated pool, what words were used? Was it "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit"? Or was it only in the "name of Jesus"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Reading about the being baptized twice. Actually, I was baptized twice, once at the hospital, and once at church to make it "official" They had no hope that I was going to live, so they either baptized me or gave me the last rites, well my family was told by a priest, that I should be baptized where it could be witnessed by the church community, hence I live. So I was baptized at the hospital and church. Was that wrong? Help me! (When saying Church I'm referring to the Catholic Church and also a Catholic Priest) Canon 869 of canon law (1983) states: "1. If there is doubt whether one has been baptized or whether baptism was validly conferred and the doubt remains after serious investigation, baptism is to be conferred conditionally." I think this applies to a case where you may have heard that a nurse or somebody in the operating room may have baptized you validly but are not 100% certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Like we don't know that? Perhaps some are INTENTIONALLY renouncing the Catholic Church, and want to. However, just to correct a misunderstanding Catholics generally hold, for most Protestants, Baptism has nothing to do with salvation, nothing. It is an OUTWARD sign, one that someone does to show the world a change has been undertaken. And many Protestant denominations believe it must be a VOLUNTARY INFORMED action, something an infant can't do. FWIW> Unfortunately that theory clearly contradicts scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Mulls, My apologies that there were no "on-fire" Catholics nearby to help you out in your time of distress. Question: when you were baptized in the heated pool, what words were used? Was it "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit"? Or was it only in the "name of Jesus"? what distress are you speaking of? I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. You expected differently didn't you? haha, gotcha. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalscout Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 (edited) that's a very fair point and very well said, people can learn from posts like that. it's just that God has brought me this far, and I see no reason to change course, unless He mandates it. I also disagree with Catholicism. I've been to one mass since my conversion, my grandfather's funeral mass, and I had a very bad experience. I will dig up an old thread about it if you wish. Now we are getting somewhere. What about Catholicism do you disagree? Please be specific because maybe clarity would be in order. I might not be the one to clear things up if that need be the case. Now you seem pretty smart(except that you are a Yankee fan, GO DODGERS ) and can discern between teachings of the Church founded by Christ and the sinful actions of some of its members. They do not go hand in hand. Let me tell you my experiences. I have never had a Priest or Religious ever tell me I was going to Hell. I never had one make me feel small in confession. I went to a Catholic high school (by choice) from a public school upbringing. At the time I saw the authority and disciplinary actions of High school teachers to represent the authority of the Church. I now know it was not so. For the most part they were great teachers and good examples of their Orders. I have met people who had just the opposite experience but I think we are talking pre Vatican II. It was the over zealous uninformed lay that soured me. Those were the stone throwers and Hell casters. That is one reason I think the lay should have limits concerning Church matters but that is an entirely different thread altogether. Is that your experience? There are many though who truly know the Church. They are great assets. I'm sorry about your Grandfather and your experience at Mass. God Bless. Edited January 2, 2004 by socalscout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 what distress are you speaking of? I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. You expected differently didn't you? haha, gotcha. Bur since you were already Baptised, and your soul marked by God, the second one is just to make you feel good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Bur since you were already Baptised, and your soul marked by God, the second one is just to make you feel good. gee, sorry, i thought i was just obeying scripture. the fact that i had believed but had gone so long without being baptized had been weighing on my soul. i was necessary. but not for salvation. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 I'm sorry about your Grandfather and your experience at Mass. i appreciate that. What about Catholicism do you disagree? Please be specific because maybe clarity would be in order. I might not be the one to clear things up if that need be the case. Now you seem pretty smart(except that you are a Yankee fan, GO DODGERS ) and can discern between teachings of the Church founded by Christ and the sinful actions of some of its members. They do not go hand in hand. haha, Kevin Brown better come through this year or we're sending him back. anyways, what I disagree is generally what most non-catholics disagree with....mary's role, veneration of saints, grace through sacraments, etc, etc, etc. all the 'standard' stuff so to speak. i've been on this phorum a long time now, and am confident that i understand what the Church teaches about these things. yet I still disagree. i really don't want to rehash all this stuff.....i opened a thread a while ago in which I stated where I currently stand with Catholicism and what I had learned here, and how my beliefs had not changed. trust me, any new discussion about 'me' would not go anywhere meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 gee, sorry, i thought i was just obeying scripture. the fact that i had believed but had gone so long without being baptized had been weighing on my soul. i was necessary. but not for salvation. Mulls I thought you said you were previously Baptised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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