Jnorm888 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 (edited) I like the Idea myself. The Vatican was kind to form such a use for Anglican converts who miss their Liturgy. I wouldn't mind going to one just to see it. [url="http://www.cin.org/anguse.html"]The Anglican Use Liturgy[/url] INLOVE Jnorm Edited June 11, 2006 by jnorm888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 [quote name='jnorm888' post='1002653' date='Jun 10 2006, 06:19 PM'] I like the Idea myself. The Vatican was kind to form such a use for Anglican converts who miss their Litergy. INLOVE Jnorm [/quote] It seems interesting. but at the same time, i do not think it is wise for Rome to allow former heretics to keep their liturgy, that was based on a schism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAM Dad Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Sam, you're being silly. The same thought process behind allowing the Tridentine indult allows the Anglican use. We have an Anglican use parish in Houston. VERY orthodox. I wish all of the parishes in the area had half the zeal these folks have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnorm888 Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1002655' date='Jun 10 2006, 04:22 PM'] It seems interesting. but at the same time, i do not think it is wise for Rome to allow former heretics to keep their liturgy, that was based on a schism. [/quote] The Litergy changed over time Sam. The source of all Christian litergy comes from the ancient Jewish Litergy. Rome has the right to change customs or add customs or delete customs. If Rome wants every Christian under the Sun to submit then it is only right for Rome to make it easy for them. I am Anglo Catholic and I like the Anglo Catholic Litergy Sam. I bet alot of Anglo Catholic Converts probly missed it. INLOVE Jnorm "It's not about schism Sam.........it's about orthopraxy" Edited June 10, 2006 by jnorm888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 [quote name='jnorm888' post='1002664' date='Jun 10 2006, 06:29 PM'] The Litergy changed over time Sam. The source of all Christian litergy comes from the ancient Jewish Litergy. Rome has the right to change customs or add customs or delete customs. If Rome wants every Christian under the Sun to submit then it is only right for Rome to make it easy for them. I am Anglo Catholic and I like the Anglo Catholic Litergy Sam. I bet alot of Anglo Catholic Converts probly missed it. INLOVE Jnorm "It's not about schism Sam.........it's about orthopraxy" [/quote] The liturgy changed In union with Rome. But this was organic change, and the mass stayed very similar since A.D 1000. Schismatic/heretical worship has also changed, but they are not in communion with Rome, so the doctrinal aspects of their liturgy are questionable. Why should Rome "protestantize" the Truth for other christians? it makes it harder for catholics to BE Catholic. Truth should not change just to attract converts. See Im a Latin Catholic, and I like the Latin Catholic Mass, i do not care about the invalid mass preformed in your "church". Since when is schism orthopraxy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnorm888 Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 (edited) Sam, Do you accept the Baptisms done by Triniterian nonRoman Catholic christian groups? Are they valid or invalid? INLOVE Jnorm Just because a group is not in communion doesn't mean that their liturgy is invalid. Surely you can see this from your Icon Lefebvre and the group he formed. Also how will letting other liturgical groups worship in their cultural style stop the main body of Latin Catholics from being Catholic? How many rites does the Roman Communion have? And did they stop the Latin church from being Catholic? Edited June 11, 2006 by jnorm888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1002679' date='Jun 10 2006, 06:45 PM'] The liturgy changed In union with Rome. But this was organic change, and the mass stayed very similar since A.D 1000. Schismatic/heretical worship has also changed, but they are not in communion with Rome, so the doctrinal aspects of their liturgy are questionable. Why should Rome "protestantize" the Truth for other christians? it makes it harder for catholics to BE Catholic. Truth should not change just to attract converts. See Im a Latin Catholic, and I like the Latin Catholic Mass, i do not care about the invalid mass preformed in your "church". Since when is schism orthopraxy? [/quote] Then don't comment on it. What you fail to see is that the truth is the truth and that does not change. There are different ways of recognizing and expressing respect for that truth and that you also seem to fail to recognize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavenseeker Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 [quote name='jnorm888' post='1002653' date='Jun 10 2006, 05:19 PM'] I like the Idea myself. The Vatican was kind to form such a use for Anglican converts who miss their Liturgy. I wouldn't mind going to one just to see it. [url="http://www.cin.org/anguse.html"]The Anglican Use Liturgy[/url] INLOVE Jnorm [/quote] it sounds interesting, maybe i should check it out sometime just to see what is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelF Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1002679' date='Jun 10 2006, 05:45 PM'] The liturgy changed In union with Rome. But this was organic change, and the mass stayed very similar since A.D 1000. Schismatic/heretical worship has also changed, but they are not in communion with Rome, so the doctrinal aspects of their liturgy are questionable. Why should Rome "protestantize" the Truth for other christians? it makes it harder for catholics to BE Catholic. Truth should not change just to attract converts. See Im a Latin Catholic, and I like the Latin Catholic Mass, i do not care about the invalid mass preformed in your "church". Since when is schism orthopraxy? [/quote] Same principle as when the Eastern Catholic (except for the Melkites, who had never broken away) churches were welcomed back into communion with the Bishop of Rome. Local Anglican (or Episcopalian) communities that submitted communally were permitted to retain certain differences of liturgy derived from the Book of Common Prayer, once it had been edited to remove Protestant influences. The Anglican Use liturgy has many influences, including the Sarum Use English missal, the 1928 and 1979 Book of Common Prayer, and the Roman Missal. The basic structure of the Mass is not unlike that of the Latin Tridentine Mass. If the Pope calls it orthodox, then that's good enough for me. Not for Lefebvrists, apparently. Edited June 11, 2006 by MichaelF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 [quote name='jnorm888' post='1002686' date='Jun 10 2006, 07:00 PM'] Sam, Do you accept the Baptisms done by Triniterian nonRoman Catholic christian groups? Are they valid or invalid? INLOVE Jnorm Just because a group is not in communion doesn't mean that their liturgy is invalid. Surely you can see this from your Icon Lefebvre and the group he formed. Also how will letting other liturgical groups worship in their cultural style stop the main body of Latin Catholics from being Catholic? How many rites does the Roman Communion have? And did they stop the Latin church from being Catholic? [/quote] Valid. their Mass is invalid because their consecration of their bishops is invalid, and therefore the consecration of their priests is invalid as well. well all of the other rites were made Before the schism (If im correct). There are 22 different Sui Iuris churches. no they did not. [quote name='MichaelF' post='1002698' date='Jun 10 2006, 07:22 PM'] If the Pope calls it orthodox, then that's good enough for me. Not for Lefebvrists, apparently. [/quote] However unfortunate it may be, the Late Pope John Paul II has done some questionable things. I would look into them if i were you. i would go into futher explanation but the Rules of the forum do not allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavenseeker Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 JP2 was a great man and did many wonderfull things not only in the church but the world as a whole if any thing he is a rolemoddle. I take offence for your views on his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 well you are misinformed. I invite you to make a thread about this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavenseeker Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I beg to differ with you but you are still young and have much to learn. For now I will ignor your comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 [quote name='heavenseeker' post='1002712' date='Jun 10 2006, 07:44 PM'] I beg to differ with you but you are still young and have much to learn. For now I will ignor your comment. [/quote] If it is such a young ignorant opinion, why is it held by over a million Catholics? If it is such a stupid comment, i challenge you to debate me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now