Don John of Austria Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 if they disagree, they have no claim to the title "evangelical" - i.e. bible believing Because some group of guys got ttogether and say they don't, wow these guys got a lot of authority really fast. Who gave them this authority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 And that group claims to have the authority to say who is evangelical and who isn't? Do you agree with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRose Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 The gospel is salvation by Faith, and Faith alone. It breaks down into more parts, but every denomination we consider non-heretical agrees that salvation is by faith alone, and grace alone. Color me in your choice of opaque colors, but am I missing something here? Faith Alone or Grace Alone? Or Faith and Grace Alone? Can you have two things Alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I do. If you look at the document it is very straightforward and every member agreed to every point. I believe it has 44 points. They are all about basic Scripture fundaments. Things like saying that an authors personality and life will influence how he writes. (example matthew and specific coin types mentioned since he is a tax collector) If you disagree with any of them, you really don't believe the Bible is inerrant, and you don't believe God spoke through people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Color me in your choice of opaque colors, but am I missing something here? Faith Alone or Grace Alone? Or Faith and Grace Alone? Can you have two things Alone? We are saved by our faith - yet our faith is a gift by God. So we are saved by grace also, although if I just say "Grace alone" it could be severely misinterpreted. It is a slip when I say "grace alone". I would like to stick to just saying "faith alone", it is simpler and not everyone believes our faith is completely a gift by God as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRose Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 What do you think the Catholics teach about salvation, Circle_Master? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 (edited) I do. If you look at the document it is very straightforward and every member agreed to every point. I believe it has 44 points. They are all about basic Scripture fundaments. Things like saying that an authors personality and life will influence how he writes. (example matthew and specific coin types mentioned since he is a tax collector) If you disagree with any of them, you really don't believe the Bible is inerrant, and you don't believe God spoke through people. So let me get this strait....You agree that a group of guys that get together from a few different Protestant denominations can get together and come up with a document that is infallable in the last few years. But you don't agree that with the authority that Christ gave the Church 2000 years ago? Edited January 3, 2004 by RJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 If you disagree with any of them, you really don't believe the Bible is inerrant, and you don't believe God spoke through people. Who say's that is absolutly absurd. What if I don't interperat the scriptures in exactly the same way that they do, who give themthe authority to say what must be believed. I ask agian who gave them this authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 We are saved by our faith - So you save your self by choosing to believe. Or is it that since God gave you this faith that really you don't choose at all but are saved or damned at the whim of the God who grants some Faith and others no Faith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Don John, your answers would require much text, and much writing. If you wish to understand salvation by faith as a gift from God send me a message and I will explain it much clearer and how it works. So let me get this strait....You agree that a group of guys that get together from a few different Protestant denominations can get together and come up with a document that is infallable in the last few years. But you don't agree that with the authority that Christ gave the Church? No, I don't hold them to be infallible. "A few different denominations also consists of hundreds." I do agree with their pronouncement however. They aren't interpreting the Bible either, but laying down rules based on what it is. Letters, historical accounts, etc. Not mystical handbooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Don John, your answers would require much text, and much writing. If you wish to understand salvation by faith as a gift from God send me a message and I will explain it much clearer and how it works. No, I don't hold them to be infallible. "A few different denominations also consists of hundreds." I do agree with their pronouncement however. They aren't interpreting the Bible either, but laying down rules based on what it is. Letters, historical accounts, etc. Not mystical handbooks. Ok then if they all agree on the same things why aren't the "hundreds" of denominations one denomination. It would only make sense that if they believed the same things they would want to be part of the same church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I do understand standerd Protestant teaching on the subject, at least as it comes from the Baptist, Methodist, Lutherian, and Calvanist traditions, each of these understandings is a bit differant and some are more logical than others. But I really want to know what YOUR understanding of it is, and frankly I prefer to discuss things out in the open.( please don't take this as an affront it is not directed at you in particular I am this way with every one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 It really doesn't matter how many Masters degrees in Theology you assemble together to discuss and agree upon certain aspects of Scripture. They're not infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit against error. They're just men relying on their own human intellect and are therefore completely capable of misinterpretting what God has spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 some protestants preach that the Good News of salvation is only possible for the baptized, some protestants preach that the Good News of salvation is possible for baptized and non-baptized alike. some protestants preach that only Christians will make it to heaven. the more liberal protestants preach that there is NO HELL. the list goes on and on about the different Good News of Salvation between denominations. you know what the "Good News of Salvation" is, right, the GOSPEL, right? THE PREACH DIFFERENT GOSPELS> i.e. they disagree on how to make it into heaven. they twist the Bible to fit their beliefs. there is a difference in doctrine. maybe not for all these 30000 denominations, but there are at least 10 diffrent doctrines of how 1 is saved going out there, while the Church has only ONE. some protestants believe that you MUST HANDLE SNAKES in order to be saved. SOme believe once saved always saved. some believe it really doesn't matter, cauze it's all been discided already and nothing you do can affect whether or not you make it into heaven. oh yeah, did i mention the list goes on and on? come on, PhatMassers, you couldn't point out these differences in their Good News? cuz these are definitely NOT disciplines. this is big stuff, the fate of souls. if you can't agree on whether or not there's a heaven and a hell, you're not assured of your truth. some ppl will tell you that the Bible speaks of satan only as a figurative boogy-man charecter so that Christians will follow God's law even though they'll all make it into heaven some day anyway. and the fact is, YOU CANT PROVE THEM WRONG. the Bible doesn't say it isn't speaking metephorically about Satan. ich. i can't believe you guys don't see that you have different Gospels. i admit, theres clusters of certain protestants who believe one of these Gospels, and there are clusters of certain protestants who believe another of these Gospels. but even amongst those who believe the same Gospel, they argue on the fine points of that Gospel. for example, the Protestant campe of once saved always saved would argue amongst themselves as to whether they need to actually get on their stage ("altar") and profess to the entire group that they believe, or whether they can do that in the silence of their homes. just because your denomination blieves the same Gospel as a bunch of otha evangelical denominations doesn't mean that you believe the EXACT SAME GOSPEL, i.e. how it must be carried out, which doesn't mean you believe the same Gospel as the other camp of protestants. the fact is, if i were to ever say, "protestants believe such and such" i would get a response like "no protestants don't!" and i'd respond "that's nonsense, protestants are divided, and there are groups that do believe that" ahhh w/e. Pax Christ, srry if my post was too long and boring or too agrivating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRose Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Don John, your answers would require much text, and much writing. If you wish to understand salvation by faith as a gift from God send me a message and I will explain it much clearer and how it works.No need to do all that writing. Just quote the Catechism: III. The Characteristics of Faith Faith is a grace 153 When St. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Jesus declared to him that this revelation did not come "from flesh and blood," but from "my Father who is in heaven."24 Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. "Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and ‘makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.'"25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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